2016-01-28 17:25:14

I probably shouldn't be posting this. And if it gets me in trouble, or flamed, or takes away my respect, oh well. At least I can say I tried.

  I have to admit, I'm quite concerned for this forum. For the most part, it's good. Great developers, wonderful people more than willing to lend a hand and chat, decent people to develop games, you get the picture.
  But recently, I've begun to sense a dromatic decrease in the quality and or activity of the moderators of the forum. Let me give you all a personal example.
  Remember when I got banned? (Yes, I'm actually bringing up my own faultage)? Yeah, I was bad. Real real bad. I flamed and caused drama like all the little kids, like all the lowest ones. And guess what happened? I got a nice big ban slapped into my face, just like I deserved.
  But recently? I've noticed a decline in the discipline and control of the forum. Go to the new releases room and you'll see for yourself. 6, 7 Ultra Power topics. All with the same thing. All with the same drama. All with the same conclusion. All, with no, moderation!
  I won't point fingers, as that's not my place to do so. But there are a few people at least, who continually cause trouble here, only one of which who's been given a warning, last week I think it was. But they keep creating the Ultra Power topics, fighting and mudslinging in them, and then letting them fall back through the pages only to create another in an hour, day, week, month...but nothing longer than that.
  And while it's easy to ignore, to blow them off, to laugh and go on with our day, people are getting tired of it. Simply the fact that more  and more topics of this nature are popping up, more and more of the same spammish and childish thing. Even still, it's not as much a point of how tired people get of seeing "Ultra Power" painted on the top of the new releases room, it's also a reflection of the moderation of this forum.If this nonsense had been going on a year ago, I.E when I was banned for pulling nonsense of my own, it would've came to a screeching  hault. But now, these Ultra Power topics, all of which containing at least a medium degree of flaming, just remain open. And all it's teaching these people is that they can get off scott free for opening them and, for that matter, spamming and causing flame wars.

  Again, I probably shouldn't have posted this, and who knows. Everyone might just be against me for it. But clearly, the new releases room is hardly being checked, the Ultra Power topic(s) even less frequently. So, maybe this will be looked into, maybe people will agree with me, maybe that nonsense will be stopped. Or, maybe it might get 30 or so passing views and fall into the sea of dead topics on page 20. I don't know. But again, at least I said what I thought, right?

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2016-01-28 18:40:37

Hello,
I am going to come right out and say that I agree with you, even as part of the moderator team. I've never seen the forum get so out of control. By the time I try to deal with something a flame war's started, and there are too many people involved to try to name and shame. Of course, if I try to close a topic another one starts, which leads me to believe I might just have to figure out how the banning system in this forum works once and for all, something I Really did not want to do. Only thing is I don't want to end up banning someone from the wrong length of time.

2016-01-28 19:42:12

True. Although on the banning front, there are one, two, maybe three people who have demonstrated bad behavior enough times that literally other forum members call them out on it. Those who start topics like these could also be given warnings as it could be considered a hostile topic better stayed away from, though I say this with a degree of uncertainty, as I don't really know if this would be against forum policy...as in the moderators trying not to tell people what they can and can't talk about.

If you have issues with Scramble, please contact support at the link below. I check here at least once a day, so this is the best avenue for submitting your issues and bug reports.
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2016-01-28 20:02:59 (edited by defender 2016-01-28 20:12:37)

You don't know how to use the banning feature?
That should be like, day one of moderator school.
If your scared that they will be banned for too long, then just set up some sort of calendar event the day you ban them, to remind you to double check that their able to come back how ever many months from then it is, or at least keep a textual log of banns and expiration dates and share it with the other mods.


It's not like Dark is around, being understandably busy with his new fiance and all, and your pretty much the only active moderator, which means you really need to step up to the plate, weather it seems fare or not, since there isn't anyone else to do so, unfortunately.
I'd apply to help out, and I think I could be pretty objective actually, even though I can get pretty fired up, as long as I'm trying to be understanding, I know I could do it.
But to be honest, even though I would give out warnings first, there would be so many people gone so fast it would make people's heads spin, and I would probably get removed out of fear of abuse, even though these are people that, lets be truthful here, should already have been long gone by now and just keep causing problems, again, and again, and again... With virtually 0 consequence for their actions.
They wouldn't be able to help them selves, warning or no, it's in their nature it seems, and it's not like warnings ever stopped them before... right? big_smile


Sorry you have to be the bad guy now Aaron, but you did sign up for this, knowing that this duty might fall to you, so I think it's time to start taking out the trash.
You should probably put up some sticky topic or something first, just to warn everyone that the hammer is about to fall and let them have a chance to be on their best behavior. tongue
And just to be clear, I'm only talking about maybe 5 or 6 people who can't help them selves and just constantly break the rules, along with the idiots that join just to be idiots on some topic that's already been lit aflame, who, lets be honest here, are probably just alternate accounts of someone already causing problems on it anyway.
I know you don't want this to turn into the kind of place where everyone has to watch their back for the tiniest infraction, lest the mighty moderator flies down from the sky to strike them down where they stand, and neither do I, but I don't think that asking for this level of control is an unreasonable request, and it's not the first one of it's kind lately either.

2016-01-28 20:20:40

If I could +1 that post you just made multiple times, Defender, I would. That was very well said, and I couldn't agree more. If you're a moderator, knowing how to ban someone should be taught to you before you even step up to the plate and put on that moderation hat. Not only because of situations like what we're experiencing here, but because of spammers, who do slip in here from time to time. If you don't ban them, who will?

Furthermore, I think it's sad that this topic had to actually be brought up at all. Yeah, being too heavy-handed is bad, but so is letting someone break the rules over and over again. I remember thinking this months ago, when the argument was going strong in the Psycho Strike topic about the developer basically taking people's money and running with it. While nothing in that topic was ban-worthy, it would have been really nice to have the presence of a moderator in there to tell some of the worst offenders to tone it down a notch, because a lot of what was said there was borderline flaming.

But I do agree that the Ultra Power topics are on a level way worse than that incident, and yeah, the incidents that crop up usually do resolve themselves in time, but is that what we want this forum to be known as? A playground for kids who really should know better but choose not to, for whatever reason?

The glass is neither half empty nor half full. It's just holding half the amount it can potentially hold.

2016-01-28 20:22:27

@4 agreed. We had a great balance of, not too "over-moderated" and not too "out of control". I think such a balance could be restored if further recruitment occured, or perhaps especially if Dark came back. No, Aaron you are not a bad moderator, quite reasonable and just in your judgement most of the time, --but you are human so sometimes things could be overlooked by mistake and hints misjudged. I haven't seen any other mods recently besides you and Dark doing active duty though, and with one of you experiencing large-scale life changes, the few mistakes you do end up make are at least a little bit justified. One person moderating hundreds of others and tens of topics at once has got to be hard no doubt.

If you have issues with Scramble, please contact support at the link below. I check here at least once a day, so this is the best avenue for submitting your issues and bug reports.
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2016-01-28 20:33:23

Steve, I agree, but I hate ultra power and thos people that don't want to play it just I cannot.

73 Wj3u

2016-01-28 20:35:23

I'm also with you Steve, this place is changing, and sadly those are not good changes. We need our good old comunity back. sad
Being a moderator is not an easy task, but I'm up to the challenge if it will make it better.
Best regards, Haramir.

The true blind is the one who refuses to see.

2016-01-28 22:28:16

Hello,
I also was involved with ultrapower, Mainly I thought I did not have the time to support an entire game, yet I wanted to do something while I could. It seemed to me, once I  started programming again, that it wasn't the programming itself that got me exhausted, but I kept working on a project I didn't like myself, a puzzle engine. So I decided that I'd better do something interesting in a break, and I did. My topic was deleted, with no reason given, by the mods. I understand that it probably wasn't a good idea for me to have worked on the code in the firstplace, but could I at least know the reason why the topic was removed? there were quite a few good posts in there, and the flaming had mostly died down. Btw, I won't work on the project anymore. I'm currently in the process of learning python and getting libaudioverse to work. I hope to create games once I've finished.

Roel
golfing in the kitchen

2016-01-28 23:05:17

Hey guys. I'm still around, don't worry. Looks like old arq needs to start cleaning house, lol just kidding. But, i have observed the ultrapower topics getting rediculous, but not sure how to approach it myself. I have been going through a good deal in my personal life, mainly the death of my girlfriend, so real life tends to trump gaming a lot of the time. I'll try to be a bit more active around here, as i'm in more or less of a mentally balanced state at this point in time. At roll, i think i personally blew away your topic, mostly because it was the same crap, more ultrapower drama, and you were being flamed for steeling code from what i recall, feel free to correct me if this is incorrect. Can those of you who still cling to this game let it die? Would it be so hard? As you can tell, i'm a bit more heavy-handed then say for example Dark, but i tend to think the way to deal with dramatic issues like this, is to cut the snake's head off per say, and either ban the offenders, or delete the topics in question. Just thought i'd share my point of view.

2016-01-28 23:37:02

Woe! I'm so sorry to hear about that Arqmeister! You're definitely right on that, personal life trumps everything pretty much... and especially tragedy. I'll be praying for you.

If you have issues with Scramble, please contact support at the link below. I check here at least once a day, so this is the best avenue for submitting your issues and bug reports.
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2016-01-29 00:07:28

Hi

Well well well. This was really intresting to read, and I do feel sorry for the loss of a dear person. On the other hand, and that's just my opinion, I think the system of topics being deleted should go a bit more like this:
- Write a moderation warning that the topic is breaking certain rules, and kindly ask the one who opened to either change the topic or to delete it.
- If there's no reaction in a certain amount of time, the topic automatically goes down the drain.

As for the mentioned topic here, by Roel, seriously, this at least had updates, and some other stuff going on. It's adult compaired to the two things in the releases room right now. And even though the code might have been aquired in a atypical way, at least it gives those messing with it either a headake or a learning school on how to or not to procede. Just my thoughts as usual. Anyone have a penny, I just ran out...

<- criticview
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   akilor ->
My folding at home statistics

2016-01-29 00:37:42

Yep, i might have been a bit hasty on that particular topic. From what i recall, people were asking that the topic be closed or deleted, so i just acted. However, i could be confusing that with another one of the many ultrapower topics that have been floating around.

2016-01-29 03:51:54 (edited by Ethin 2016-01-29 03:56:26)

Hi,
@2, I can teach you right now how to ban people. Here are instructions on how to ban someone from the forum. These instructions come from my own experience of being an administrator of my own self-hosted PunBB forum.
(Note: The following instructions only work for moderators and administrators. Forum members will not be able to access these functions.)

  1. Click on administration on the top menu.

  2. Go to users.

  3. Select the bans section.

  4. Follow the instructions on that screen.

Alternatively:

  1. Click on the users username to open the users profile.

  2. Click 'ban user' or a variant of that option.

  3. Follow the instructions on that screen.

Warning: Banning a user prevents them from accessing any section of the site (and any sites that are connected to this forum via single sign-on (SSO)). If you do not know a good time to ban a user, ban them indefinitely when in doubt. Alternatively, if you feel that this is not a good option, ban them for 1 month or more. Banning someone for 1 hour/day/week will not teach anyone anything. Again, if you don't know a good time, banning people indefinitely is a good option since it allows you to choose exactly when you think they should be unbanned, rather than PunBB automatically doing it for you.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2016-01-29 05:01:34

Hello
I agree with everything and add something else.
I think the database is somewhat neglected. There are many broken links may be repaired only changing the link for the new link.
Examples of these are: kitchens inc games, morokuma games, destination mars, 7-128 software games, beatstar, scrolling battles and a long etc.
also there are some new audiogames that were not added how: the gate, audio rally racing, space encounter, griff, marina break, survive the wild, the oriol gómez games etc.
I know all the moderators have a personal life, and that is hard work keeping the database.
however I offer help with updating the database if the moderators want help with this.
in the Hispanic community I have similar work, it is actually the same, update the database with new releases.
greetings and thanks.

sorry my english, is not my native language.

2016-01-29 12:10:09

@ severestormsteve1 and others,
It makes me realize just what kind of impact the decision to leave the moderation panel might have had on you all.  Don't get me wrong; I don't sit here and speculate as to whether or not it might have been a knee jerk reaction on my part.  It  wasn't.  I wondered if perhaps the fact that not gaming as often fit audiogaming moderator criteria, but I was already feeling a lot of what post 1 pointed out at the time as well.  Since no one had come forward to discuss these points I figured it was just me, and not wanting to seem like some ultra conservative psycho banning machine I just, didn't act on my feelings, didn't really approach anyone regarding my thoughts or anything of the sort.  I see now that I was wrong and should have done so.  Moderators, this isn't a jab, and please don't take it as such, but speaking from the perspective of one who has been one of you not too long ago I feel qualified in saying you have a job to do.  Your judgment is generally trusted among us including Dark who made you all mods to begin with.  I made a mistake in not trusting my own when others trusted in me.  Bans can be undone if they must be.  Punishments upon this forum and its people don't have to be permanent and, for the most part, decisions are reversable.  Obviously this doesn't mean you all should act with no logic or reason, but I think you already know that.
The obligations and responsibilities I have been given as of late have kept me from really thinking about any of this, and it's been almost two years since I made my decision.  I'm officially homeless at the moment for those of you who don't know.  Such things keep me from actively seeking out a place among you all as a mod once again, and I won't.  What I will do, is say that if the need presented itself for another mod who has previously managed the site and one who has learned a bit about patience since becoming a dad, I would be willing to take that position once again.  I may not game as often as I once did, but I still love this site and its members.

When life gives you oranges, demand lemons since everyone else is obviously getting them.

2016-01-29 13:57:50

I think I have... like... one post on this forum. One. And the reason behind it is simple. I've been reading for ages, and I've noticed two nearly constant things here.

Thing the first: Oh my everloving god the complaining. If it's not someone complaining because they were banned from a game, it's someone complaining because $dev stole this, or didn't implement that, or changed that other thing. Or it's complaining about something relatively trivial that's gone on in this forum. Or it's complaining about all the people doing the complaining. Seriously, who's got time for that?

Thing the second: Some regulation, please. I didn't see it very often, but even when there were active moderators around here I'd see warnings met by the people they were aimed at essentially laughing off said warnings. I've seen people who were still supposed to be banned back on the site like nothing happened because, I don't know, the mods felt like being nice I guess. And yes, I've seen inappropriate topics end up blown away just to be replaced by 6 more just like it.

Honestly, if it wasn't for the fact there's occasionally something semi-interesting posted here that I consider checking out, I probably wouldn't even have an account here. And if my third post on this forum ends up offending someone and someone decides to use me as a reason to get back on the mod bandwagon, I won't lose a whole lot of sleep for it. If it's interesting enough that it manages to survive the utter chaos of this forum, I'll probably hear of it elsewhere anyway.

Long story short: This makes the 17th, as of the time I started writing, post on this thread talking about moderating. How about we stop talking about moderating and start actually moderating. If you're a mod, you're a mod for a reason. Be one, for cryin' in the sink, or bring in someone who will.

2016-01-29 14:52:53

I agree with all of these posts, this forum does need some more moderatin. Now I completely understand personal life, *rest in peace to Arq's girlfriend, but who knows, that may involve adding more moderators. I'm not directly requesting an invite here, because I know if ever I or anyone else gets invited, it's all up to the mods to do that, but if ever I was I'd be up for the challenge. @Arron: If time is an issue, you can have pun-bb automatically unban the person after, oh let's say, 3 months, however long you give it. However Ethin is right, if they need a longer ban, you can always manually unban them whenever you feel they should be. That would be good if, say, in 3 months there's a flame war and then a banned person is unbanned right in the middle of that, anything could happen. While the flamewar could be killed off and then you could unban them.

2016-01-29 15:24:16

You know, I think it's a very encouraging sign that a post like this, which has the potential to turn into a bunch of negativity and hurt feelings, can lead to such a positive, productive, constructively critical discussion. i've been a part of forums before (moderated one, in fact) where a post like this would have led to all out war between the mods who feel offended, the flamers who feel insulted, the non-flamers who assume you're talking about them and also feel insulted, the iron fists who want all the flamers banned, and the teddy bears who are mad at anyone suggesting anyone be banned. But I read the posts above, and I find none of that. I find an honest, open discussion of the issues, and a desire on everyone's part to make the forum as good of a community as possible. My hat's off to all of you.

2016-01-29 15:59:59

I'd be willing to be a moderator if asked.

2016-01-29 18:32:56

I agree with everything said here. While I tend to ignore topics I'm not interested in, I have seen a ton of Ultra Power topics recently. It also seems like spammers are surviving longer on this forum than they used to. I reported what appeared to me to be a purely spam topic a few days ago. No idea if it ever got nuked.

Also, there have been several times when I've seen a seemingly good/interesting topic degenerate into flame wars over who stole whose code, who stole whose idea, etc. At those times, I've wanted to post something like:

MODERATION!

Okay, folks, this topic has gotten waaaaaaay out of hand. If this kind of thing continues, the topic will be closed. Users X, Y, and Z, you have each been given an official warning.

2016-01-29 19:19:42

Thing is, @21, that used to happen quite a lot. I understand that mods cannot check each and every single little topic, but if something gets reported then it's causing the community unrest and therefore should be looked into. And I can't speak for everyone here, but I try to report posts/users which I find to be spamming, flaming, etc.

If you have issues with Scramble, please contact support at the link below. I check here at least once a day, so this is the best avenue for submitting your issues and bug reports.
https://stevend.net/scramble/support

2016-01-30 00:57:49

I agree as to the issues stated above. I also offer my services as a potential mod to try to help put things on track again. It's disheartening to see all the U P topics, the rude comments, etc.

Facts with Tom MacDonald, Adam Calhoun, and Dax
End racism
End division
Become united

2016-01-30 05:13:13

Yeah, that's precisely why I took the time to write post 16, honestly.  Don't ask me where I got the time, either.  lol

When life gives you oranges, demand lemons since everyone else is obviously getting them.

2016-01-30 07:38:44

This is why I posted post 16 or 15 in the new ultrapower topic. That's why I said that the moderators need to take their places at their podiums and start taking control again. It's quite obvious swhat will happen if they don't.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github