2016-01-19 02:05:14 (edited by Chris 2016-01-19 02:08:36)

Hi everyone.

If anyone has been following my posts, you know I have had a 2006 Mac Mini for the past 2 or so years. While I've loved using all the versions of OS X it suppports, these versions are no longer very useful. I'm thinking about putting Windows XP on it. Yes, I know what everyone will say. It will be something along the lines of XP is obsolete blah blah blah. Keep in mind I only want Windows on here to play a few games and possibly host online games or servers. So, here are my questions.

1. Can I use a USB drive to create the XP install media along with the Bootcamp support software? I'm assuming that you can still download the support software with Bootcamp utility.

2. What version of OS X and Bootcamp should I use? I have Tiger, Leopard, and Snow Leopard.

3. Can I use a talking PE to help install this? I guess I could just plug this thing into a monitor and have someone do it for me, but I really don't want to do that. Would the PE work with either the integrated sound hardware or work with my Zoom H1?

What do you guys think? I'm trying to make this machine at least slightly useful. I guess I could also install 7, but I don't really like 7. On top of that, this machine has a 1.83 GHZ duel core intel core Duo processor and 1 GB of ram. The 1 GB of ram is the reason I don't feel comfortable putting 7 on it. So, any thoughts?

Grab my Adventure at C: stages Right here.

2016-01-19 11:49:34

hi.
I'll just give my opinion on the OSX installer.
for me the best version of OSX is Snow Leopard.
cheers.

2016-01-20 22:41:08

Hi Chris.

Yes, install Windows to save your Mac. smile

And yes, good ol' XP is probably the best option. The BootCamp drivers are on your Snow Leopard disc, which I hope you have, although I can also find you some up-to-date ones I've rescued. You won't be USB-booting that old thing; it'll have to be optical, and it's quite likely you'll need sighted help as a result, although we could try our luck without it. Your machine is so old that it uses MBR and BIOS emulation; make sure you have the latest Snow Leopard on your box and have installed the very latest updates, especially firmware, to use CSM.

Decide if you will use OS X and Windows, or Windows exclusively. If the latter, then do an install of Snow Leopard on an external USB device, so you can use it to repartition your internal drive as a blank MBR disk with a single FAT32 partition; else, allow BootCamp Assistant to repartition and start up the Windows CD. You can manually perform the steps done by BootCamp Assistant in order to try your luck with the WinPE environment, but then you've got the somewhat tricky business of installing XP using the command-line as you can't run Setup directly. And yes USB sound hardware is supported.

Good luck.

Just myself, as usual.

2016-01-21 02:33:35 (edited by Chris 2016-01-21 12:07:52)

Hello,

This machine can boot from USB. I've done it to install Snow Leopard, Leopard, and Tiger off of USB drives. I got this machine off of Kraigslist from some guy who didn't bother to give me install disks. I had to find dmg files for Leopard and Snow Leopard and I bought a Tiger disk which appears to have disappeared. (I hate people that move my crap around at random.)

Anyway, are you saying I can't use a USB drive to install XP? I have an XP ISO image. Also, how do I go about formating the drive as fat32? I don't think OS X supports that unless you do it through terminal?

edit

Oh, I'm an idiot! You can format disks as fat. I was thinking NTFS. So, I don't know anymore. This seems way too complicated. If only Microslop actually cared enough to make the installer talk. I really don't want to have to fish out an external monitor. So, the current talking preinstallation packages don't even run the XP install program? Wow, I don't know. My first idea was to see if I could even get a talking PE to load up and talk. If I can't even do that, it looks like I'll have to get someone to help. Also, I don't have disks and don't really feel like buying some.

Grab my Adventure at C: stages Right here.

2016-01-22 10:42:22

@Chris: yes. Macs can boot from GPT-format USB media, but only the newest Macs (starting with MacBook Airs, I believe) know how to boot MBR, which is what you need for Windows. I wasn't wrong, I'm afraid. You'll need that ISO burned to a CD.

To get the drive nice and formatted, use one of your Snow Leopard installs to either clone or install a bootable USB device. Boot into that device, and use Disk Utility. Set the scheme to be MBR, and the format to be "MS-DOS (FAT)". That will give you a Windows-recognised FAT partition which you will then reformat during Windows Setup. (You could try leaving it at FAT32 for a bit of extra speed and convenience, but it's probably not worth that.)

Make sure that your XP CD and product key agree. If you have an OEM disc, you have to have an OEM key. Ditto for retail. There are reports, too, that doing an SP3 install directly (and not through an upgrade from a prior service pack) might result in a post-setup step failing. Be prepared for the remotest contingencies. smile

The PE images can be burned, though yes you will need a disc. We could figure out the simplest route to installing XP from such an image, from a USB drive accessible from within that PE. You would only need one blank CD. But yeah, not from USB.

Just myself, as usual.

2016-01-22 14:40:07 (edited by Chris 2016-01-22 14:41:00)

Well, that just stops everything. I don't really have DVDs and don't feel like buying any. At this point, I don't even know if putting XP on this is worth it anymore. So, I don't know. It's sad that Snow Leopard (which is just about as old is Windows 7) is more obsolete even though SL is a superior OS.

sad

Well, now what? Is this machine just lost?

Grab my Adventure at C: stages Right here.

2016-01-22 20:04:43 (edited by jack 2016-01-22 20:05:34)

Dvd's aren't actually that expensive, in dded I've seen rewriteables for only a few bucks. All you need to do is find a retail iso of xp, burn it to disk, and get the product key out of the xp virtual machine.

2016-01-22 22:15:22

Hello,

Would it be possible to put the Talking PE environment on the Mac drive on an MBR fat32 partition and then boot from that?

Grab my Adventure at C: stages Right here.

2016-01-22 23:43:10

Hi

I'm thinking of two options here:
- Create a usb drive with rufus, picking mrb for bios or uefi computers and using winpe 7, the one from bryan smart. It's using a 32-bit environment so xp will install just fine.
- Create an answer file for xp and use that to fully install xp and so on

it's not much, i know, but it's late here and i'm getting sleepy so forgive my shortness ...

HTH

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2016-01-23 00:03:12 (edited by Chris 2016-01-23 00:04:23)

I thought Sebby said that you can't boot those old intel macs with MBR partition schemes. I tried using that Windows program once but it made an NTFS drive. I just tired to run the XP iso I have in Vmware. It opens the install program, but pressing enter or space on the install button just has NVDA speak press. Is this the thingwhere I need to do the command line?

Grab my Adventure at C: stages Right here.

2016-01-23 00:12:24

Scratch scratch scratch... xp is so old and long gone, that i don't even remember how i installed it all those years ago ... rofl Theoretically any intel mac should boot at least from an mbr partition scheme, even if it has a hybrid one. There's no hurt in trying a winpe from a usb drive to see if it boots or not, no permanent changes to hardware done ... If the winpe boots, you can easyly take it from there, just make sure the drive is partitioned before from within osx and that's it.

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2016-01-23 00:39:38

Mmm, you still need a bootable Windows OS to get it going. That means a CD. Trust me, my 2011 iMac couldn't do MBR USB boot, either. Although I'm not exactly sure what might happen if you try to start the UEFI loader on the Mac from USB. Maybe, if you did, and it worked, and maybe if you could run diskpart and XP's winnt32, you might at least be able to put an XP Setup directory on the internal disk, if not entirely complete the install. Then the next time you rebooted the box, you'd be in XP Setup, which you could have unattended, or a complete install, which you could get going with USB audio.

Or better! You could, if you have the CD and floppy drive, make the entire process unattended, from a blank internal drive.

I have to admit, at this point I'd need to call on lots of esoteric knowledge that I might not have. Will have to look into it, but hopefully others on here have input.

NVDA says "Press"? Where does it say that?

Will the 32-bit Bryan Smart installer boot from DVD? Ah, the DVD again ...

Just myself, as usual.

2016-01-23 01:37:37

I just want to make sure of one thing. Does the Zoom H1 in soundcard mode work with any of these talking PE images? I'm really starting to think it doesn't. I'm just going to scrap this. If it's going to be this difficult to do a simple thing like install Windows, forget it. I just want to make sure my Zoom isn't at fault. What kinds of drivers does it use? I know for a fact that it even works as an audio device with Leopard.

Grab my Adventure at C: stages Right here.

2016-01-23 03:12:01

If it shows up as a USB audio device in OS X, then the likelihood is good that it's fine for USB audio in Windows.

Just myself, as usual.

2016-01-25 04:46:53

All right, here goes one last thought on this whole mess.

I have 2 packages containing disks with OS X 10.4.7 on them. Would it be possible to delete the current contents of said disks and burn other stuff like the talking PE or XP image to these disks? The disks themselves are useless as I can't install OS X on my mahine. The guy I bought these from said that they would install OS X on my Mini. However, I get the message that this software cannot be installed on this machine. I had to create a disk image from the install disk and then edit the config file and add my MacMini1,1 to the list of supported machines. After doing this and using CCC to copy it to a flash drive, the install went perfectly. So, can I repurpose these disks or are they read only?

Grab my Adventure at C: stages Right here.

2016-01-25 04:49:22

You could check by formatting these disks then burning something to them. If they eject, then they're cd roms, thus not rewriteable. If they burn, then the'yre rewriteable.

2016-01-25 09:18:53

And as an aside, the bloke who sold you them clearly scammed you, since machine-specific discs should never be sold without the Macs they came with. sad

Just myself, as usual.

2016-01-25 13:47:38 (edited by Chris 2016-01-25 13:50:37)

So, can these disks be overwritten with new data? I actually have to find these, since it looks like someone moved them on me.

I agree, it probably was a scam. Still, I got the guy to send me another set for free. He had no idea why they wouldn't install. I found out it was because the list of allowed machines that came with the config file had iMac 5,1 or something like that in the supported machines list. I think it was a restore disk for that particular machine. Still, silly Apple made it difficult to install on other machines even though the version functions perfectly well on my Mini. Silly silly Apple. As for the Mac, it probably was a scam as well. At least it's in pretty good condition though. It appears to be pretty maxed out aside from the ram which is actually pretty cool. I love this machine as it was my first experience with running Mac OS X.

Grab my Adventure at C: stages Right here.

2016-01-25 13:49:51

Put the disc in the drive, then go to System Information and look under Disc Burning. You should be able to learn about the media that way. You can also try just erasing the disc in Disk Utility.

To be a teensy-weensy bit fair to Apple, machines often had specific builds of the OS. So, although it's generally possible to install a version of OS X at or above the one that a machine came with, there will still be cases where that isn't true. No machine will run a version of OS X that is lower than the one it came with, of course.

Just myself, as usual.

2016-02-03 05:19:02 (edited by Chris 2016-02-03 05:24:18)

All right, so here's what I'm dealing with currently. I can't find any disks and don't feel like digging any up either off the internet or just around here. As I see it, I have two options. Either I scrap this whole stupid attempt or I try my next idea.

About a year ago, someone showed me how it is possible to put bootable copies of OS X on an internal partition and boot from them to install the operating system on other internal partitions. Since the issue appears to be that I need a disk to boot the Windows installer, would it be possible to create a 1 or 2 GB partition on the hard drive and copy the contents of the iso image to it with CCC or disk utility? I'm assuming that this should work since Windows has to boot from the disk once it's installed. Would this work and land me in the XP install wizard? At this point, I've given up on these talking preinstallation images since they don't seem to work on my Macs. So, would this work? I'll resort to getting my mom or dad to guide me through the install. Yes, I lose independence, but that's what you deal with when you enter Windows world. So, does this work or should I just walk away from this machine and forget about it? This is seriously my last idea for installing Windows without disks. I wish it didn't have to be this way, but I don't want to get rid of this computer because it still works flawlessly. As with everything else, the operating systems are obsolete to me simply because many popular applications and the internet don't work anymore, even on Snow Leopard. Then again, XP isn't modern either, but I could find more uses for it than obsolete versions of OS X that don't run anything.

Grab my Adventure at C: stages Right here.

2016-02-03 11:57:17

It's not that the idea is bad (I already covered it on this thread, in fact) but that, somehow, you need to be able to provide a bootable environment without using any optical media, and only using the tools in OS X. So for instance, you could get the MBR from an XP system, and write it into place on your disk. Then you could resize your partitions, resulting in a hybrid MBR/GPT system, on which you copy the XP installation files and a minimal DOS environment. Finally you boot into DOS, use fdisk and format to set up a second primary partition onto which to install XP, run winnt.exe, and do your install. It would require sighted help, of course, unless you first wrote a custom script for it, which would need to take account of your new partition layout.

All perfectly doable--at least, I hope so. But tell me, don't you think it'd be easier to just grab some blank optical media, dump the drivers on a USB key, and follow the BootCamp procedure (or do a complete wipe and reinstall from XP Setup)? smile

Just myself, as usual.

2016-02-05 18:05:55 (edited by Chris 2016-02-05 19:55:33)

All right then. I guess it's time to find some optical disks. I can't help but think this is a big giant waste of time. How do I get the Bootcamp drivers? It says to insert my OS X installation disk. I just want to have these around whenever I find disks. Can I extract the drivers from my Snow Leopard dmg? It's got 10.6 initial on it.

edit

Ok, here's the deal. I found the following on Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/Maxell-635117-Rew … B000B0NC2W
So, should I spend the $13.33 USD? My XP image is only 670 mb or something like that.

Grab my Adventure at C: stages Right here.

2016-02-06 01:20:10

I'd honestly just go buy the dvdrw's, it'll do you better in the long run.

2016-02-06 13:04:41

Yes, you ought to be able to extract the BootCamp drivers from your Snow Leopard image, using a tool like TheUnarchiver. If you're having any trouble, just let me know and I'll MailDrop them to you.

Buy those DVD-RW discs. Or go cheaper and buy DVD-R, it hardly matters if you're going to chuck most of them anyway (bad for the environment ...).

Apple sells the latest Snow Leopard disc (10.6.3). It does not work on all machines that run Snow Leopard, but it will work just fine on yours.

Just myself, as usual.

2016-02-08 02:45:04

Hello,

When I try to extract the dmg with the Unarchiver, I get the followingm essage.

The contents of the file "snowleopard_10a432_userdvd.dmg" can not be extracted with this program.

What do I do now? I'm going to order those disks today so should get them in a few days.

Grab my Adventure at C: stages Right here.