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AudioGames.net Forum → General Game Discussion → May the Force be with me...
This is actually a bit of a general inquirey. A few times, I've seen people begin work on Star Wars based audiogames, only to abandon them or lose interest. I'm curious to know if anyone would enjoy a SW game and if so, what sorts of suggestions would you make, what would you like to see?
Thanks,
While I'm not the biggest Star Wars fan, actually I'm not a fan at all, while I was sighted I enjoyed several of the games so I would definitely check such a game out whatever type it is.
Though I'll point out that as far as I know there has yet to be a space combat audio game in the same sense as the X-Wing series in the mainstream, so if you want to tread new ground...
Cx2,
I make it a habbit not only to tread new ground, but to stomp on it quite thoroughly and have fun while doing so. I've never had any experience with that series of games, so information on it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Starwars is one of the things I'm a fan of, ----- and I certainly enjoy all the films (I even own a couple of quite unusual things on Dvd, such as the two ewok adventure films from the 80's and the clonewars animated Tv series). though for personal fandon terms Dr. who, ---- probably comes first in terms of scifi, ---- and tolkeen even before that. I'm probably about as much a starwars fan as a Trek fan, but I've had far less success in tracking down accessible starwars literature (novels etc), than I have star trek (the national braille braille library does indeed have a few Trek novels, but as far as I know no starwars).
to get onto games though, I'd prefer to see something with fairly extensive use of plot, rather than just a space flight sim or basic bash the baddies style game.
I don't know about X wing, but a friend of mine has raved extensively about the old tie fighter game, --- very much because of it's plot, combined with the difficulty of it's gameplay, ----- apparently even now he hates the site of X wings, just because in the game if you didn't destroy them incredibly quickly you'd be in trouble! lol!
if it was a game based around the starwars film plotlines, something like the old snes starwars titles or the more recent starwars trilogy arcade game would be nice, with various forms of gameplay from different scenes in the film, ---- piloting everything from snow speeders to speeder bikes, some side platform exploration and combat type levels in places like the Deathstar hanger bay or Jaba the hut's barge, that sort of thing.
i realize though, this would be incredibly hard to do in audio, and take a fair amount of time as well.
but even if you take Cx2's suggestion of a space combat themed thing, I hope you'd considder actual missions, cut scenes and objectives to give the game structure in the starwars universe.
Btw, at the moment I know that Lighttech and Usa games are both apparently working on Starwars titles, I believe tom ward of Usa wants a first person type of game set somewhere in the extended universe, but with other projects I'm not sure when we'll see this one.
for Lighttech, last I heard they were completely re-working the game they were developing to feature more exploration and deeper gameplay rather than just enemy slaughtering, but I'm not certain.
Ah, it's nice to see a LOTR fan!
Strangley, I'm watching FOTR now...
And had considered rescueing a audio version of an LOTR game, too, though TTT and ROTK for Xbox are quite accessible (I've played the heck out of them to be honest, to the point where I have the menus memorized).
But to Star Wars.
As someone who loves games with a plot, I'd not consider making any other sort. Even a kick-butt-only game can be given a plot -- think of Mortel Combat.
That aside, my approach would most likely involve a good many things you mentioned above. And even though I'm a recently new mom, I strangely have a good bit of time on my hands (college and baby aside, I have plenty of help from my partners).
* trots off to go scope out SW wavs and such *
Good thing I own the DVDs...
Sidenote to Dark:
On the subject of Star Wars novels, I happen to own the novelizations for Episodes 1, 2, and 3, though 1 and 2 were considerably hard to come by and where gotten via Ebay. Also, is you scope out NLS, they have several Star Wars novel titles as I recall -- if you're outside of the USA, I could see how it would be a problem to get these. Where the three novelizations I have are concerned, if you are interested, I'd be more than willing to upload them for your listening pleasure.
(The guys complaining about plagiarism can hush up now, as I see this as a lagitamit reason to copy-and-distribute, thank you very much)
how about where you could explore, slotter, buy ships, pilot, kill in space and go to other planets?
for the starwars game
Well Lorien, I am indeed, (and most unfortunately for book availability), in England. I won't boare everyone else with yet another wrant about the general awfulness of the English library services, and of the government as far as funding and copyright issues go, suffice it to say I'm actually considdering moving to the states when I've finished my Phd, ---- and one reason is the increased availability of books (though a couple of other things I do are fairly major in the states as well).
Anyway, having the novelizations of the starwars films would be great! especially as I have recently dug out my old braille display, so wouldn't even have to read them with hal.
for Lotr, yes, I'm a pretty huge fan, and have been sinse I was about 7. I actually have a copy of the ring, with engraving in the speech of Mordor, which my parents had made for me on my 17th birthday (it was our birthday pressssssent precious!), and am in the process at the moment of acquiring a Lotr Chess set.
On to games though, a full exploration style rpg of Lotr would be rather nice, but it'd obviously take huge amounts of work and voice acting, not to mention probably mucking about with the plot. and
so I think the Starwars game is probably an easier proposition.
the Mk plot has been building up now for about 12 or 13 years, which is why it's so extensive, but I remember my brother reading me the manual to Mk1 which we'd just got on the Snes, and the plot there was rather skimpy, especially compared to Street fighter at the time which was more extensive with character's backstories.
Gamefaqs has two Mk plot analyses, one of them containing all original game text from the first two mk games as well as descriptions and text of the Mk commics (which have I believe sinse been rtconed), just look under any Mk title for both of them, or I could send you coppies by E-mail if you like. (the 2nd plot analyses, while not containing the same amount of detail in text is imho, better written, so it balances out quite nicely).
X-Wing game on Wookiee Pedia
Note that Tie Fighter was a member of the X-wing series of games, and this link is to the original. There are links to the other games in the series at the bottom of the article.
In general these games progressed plot through mission briefings, but I recall distinctly some use of cutscenes. The mission objectives would also often change mid mission, and just generally be more than a blast fest. Tie fighter is actually a particularly good example because you have primary objectives, as well as secondary objectives which aren't necessary but give you additional points and presumably rank... along with some of them being hidden and often appearing out of nowhere. For example you're in a mission to disable certain ships, and destroy any others trying to escape. One shuttle in particular if inspected turns out to contain a group of Rebels, and instead of destroying it you are then ordered to disable it. Even in the original though you have aside from pure attack missions such things as escort, disable and capture, and so on.
Glad to hear you like "stomping" all over new ground 
Ah, Lord of the rings! I love it too, have done so for a while, but have only read the books a few times. A game in that style wouldn't be that hard... elvish lines wouldn't be too hard for me, I've memorized most of them. lol. I love languages, which explains that...
It wouldn't be too hard. You wouldn't exactly need to mess up the plot. Two towers didn't mess up the plot, it just put the first two in one.
As for MK 1 having a skimpy plot, there's a reason for that. In case you never knew, the original mk wasn't meant to be a big thing. It was just meant to be a quick project on the side. But somehow it got into arcades, and people loved it. It was a piece of field-testing, so to speak. So they decided to make mk 2, and it's just grown on and on.
Indeed Assault freak, I knew about that with Mk, which is the reason why mk1 has only 7 playable characters. another interesting litle tale, is that apparently they didn't tll anyone about the fatalities, and thought it'd take ages for people to work them out, ----- only to be proved wrong on the first public play session. While Mk wasn't the first beat em up to feature highly gory death (moonstone on the amigar did a couple of years earlier for instance), it was the first in arcades, and the media reaction sort of snowballed from there. that's why they put so much work into 2 and it turned out imho such a great game (probably my favourite of the early Mk games).
The problem with Lotr as a computer game Assault freak is basically one of focus. Even in a traditional rpg, there is a large focus on fighting, and having the hobbits hack butcher and slay their way out of the shire just doesn't work! Neither does inventing crazy dungeon tasks for them for no readily apparent reason.
the only style of game I can really see doing justice to Lotr would be some sort of adventure/puzle game, ----- either something 3D sarah style (similar to one of the Ps2 Fellowship of the ring games), or something chillingham esque. the possibility could exist to add minimal fight seens for necessary sections ----- Eg Moria, but most of the game would be exploration and journeying, which is afterall one of the main focuses in the books.
Provided decent voice acting was used, the elvish wouldn't be a problem (they managed it in the Bbc radio adaptation, and in the Peter Jaxon films).
As for me, I'm one of these people who reads through Lotr (along with the hobbit and The Silmarillion), every couple of years, and stil! totally enjoy it.
I've heard good things about X wing Cx2, it's just that my friend particularly raves about Tie fighter, sinse in his view it went a long way to explaining why the various imperial pilots did what they did, ----- and slightly changed the perspective on things.
It also apparently had visits from a few characters such as Darth Vader, and Admiral thrawn as well, which sounds good.
Very true. That is why I originally specified as the "X-wing series", with Tie Fighter being effectively XWing 2. As I said it's a prime example of bringing plot into that type of game, more so than the original.
The menus for both games were good too. Rather than have a traditional menu they had a "concourse" with various doors leading off. XWing for some reason showed a cutscene of you flying from one ship to another when you moved between the concourse, flight training, combat training and campaign areas but Tie Fighter just had them as doors which made it feel like it was all on board one ship. This system actually has been imitated by several games of the genre since, notably the Freespace series.
I'm wondering whether a basic version of this could work in audio, make it feel more immersive perhaps? Nothing hugely complex, just some background sounds and forward/left/right controls to turn between doors and move about with a voice saying what doors are here and which you're pointing at. Not Shades style movement, more moving in blocks I'm thinking, and give the doors different sounds - maybe make them sound a little different when opening/closing when you face them and then some background noise coming from them.
The suggestions you have all given are wonderful, and I'm going to consider all and try to work them in (even if in the minutest way). Dark, I will work on that upload of the SW novelizations for you -- I apologize for the wait; it's been a rough couple days with my son. I'm going to get on this -- and I will keep you alll posted. If anyone would like, or can, to get their hands on SW sounds (movie or games), please let me know and I will give you full credit/thanks.
Ah, that is true indeed. But see, this is why most of the games don't go through entirely with the plot. Two towers, even. That's a good game to make because there are so many fighting areas. Two towers and return of the king probably had the most fighting out of all three books. A sarah thing for lotr would be good, but hacking and slashing seems to fit better for some reason. lol. And there was never a game that followed fellowship of the ring specifically. The two games out there right now are two towers and return of the king. And lotr tactics for the psp.
The Starwars novelizations would be great! Please don't worry about timing, at the moment I'm horribly busy, preparing for fairly major auditions next week (learning script, practicing music), and I've just come back from a mamouth 6 hour Rp session. I once did find a site with a hole load of sfx from he various starwars films, but I'm not sure whether it's stil up or not.
For the menues Cx2, well I've never come across that type of thing done in a space combat game, though I have occasionally come across it in other games. In Echo the dolphin for example, all the options, the difficulty setting, and the continue screen involved you choosing to swim down passages to the left, right or upwards, (obviously being a dolphin, you did a lot of swimming), while fairly recently the Mega man aniversery collection featured Mega man going through a series of doors to get to the various games on the collection Cd.
I admit though, with the hole ethos of training, and being in the military I can deffinately see this sort of system working in the X wing games.
Actually Assault freak, there have been several fellowship of the ring games that i can think of. there is a fairly old text adventure (not playable unfortunately without some fairly serious emulation of old computers), which covered fellowship, though I don't believe very well.
Bryan P mentioned a full Lotr game from the 80s, in the point and click graphic adventure style, though apparently featuring combat.
then, on the snes, there was a legend of Zelda style Rpg (the one with all the rather silly dungeons), of fellowship of the ring, though that features some incredibly odd departures from the plot, such as being unable to leave hobbiton without first finding Gaffer Gamgee's glasses, hidden in the very odd Hobbiton caves dungeon with lots of snakes, orcs and wolves guarding them (as I said, not a true to the book adaptation).
there is then a fellowship of the ring game for the Ps2, very much a 3D rpg with puzle solving.
the Personally, I very much dislike converting Lotr into a pure hack and slash game, ---- as happened in one game for the Ps2 (called I believe Peter jaxon's Lord of the rings), sinse it very much goes again much of he spirit and style of the book, which actually features comparatively litle combat even in the two towers, the films hugely exaggerated the hole Helms deep section to mildly rediculous lengths, not to mention adding extra battles, such as that of the rohirim on the way to Helms deep (where they very much did not go in the book).
the only thing Lotr and combat wise that I can really see doing major justice would be either a military stratogy game sound Rts style, ----- or perhaps even just making some sound rts missions with appropriate enemies and objectives. If full object, mission and sound clip creation ever comes about for Sound Rts, this is something I might do myself.
For an action rpg, I thinnk either having your own original plot, or adapting a mainstream rpg plot such as that of the ever popular legend of Zelda would be a much better plan than trying to turn Lotr into something it isn't.
I'll admit, as far as tolkeen goes, I am slightly a purist, ----- though I did enjoy many things about the films, and I'm a huge fan of the Bbc radio adaptation.
I will agree with all said about hack and slash LOTR. I love the films as well, though I don't think they do the book a lot of justice in certain areas. Maggit sounds like a hermit in the movie. I quote: "Oy! Get out of my field!" But what I also like is the fact that the movie shows parts that weren't in the book. Well, parts that were described by people but were never really done as if they were there. The confrontation between Gandalf and Saruman, for example. In the book, it was recounted by Gandalf in Imladris, or Rivandell. But the point is, in the moovie, they actual show it happening as Gandalf marches into Isengard, and talks with Saruman, and eventually fighting him for a minute or two between Saruman litterally throws him sky high out the tower onto the roof. Or, another part is when Boromir gets killed by the orks up at Emmen Mule. The book doesn't go into a lot of detail. But the moovie shows the full seen, and the music, sounds and voice-acting for both seens are wonderful. I have the first two lotr movies in descriptive video actually, done by ITFC. Sine you're in England, dark, I believe you could obtain them. Probably through RNIB.
Hmmm assault freak, oncemore I say, all praise to the 1973 Bbc radio play,3 which includes both bits as you describe, ----- though without the extra silliness in certain filmseens, ----- I wouldn't interpret "they took me and placed me" as gandalf puts it, into being turned into a human spinning top by Saruman up the side of Orthanc.
It's interesting you mention audio described Lotr. The last I heard from the Audio description office, they hadn't had permission to do Lotr, which rather disappointed mee sinse there are a lot of scenes I'd like described. I'll have to contact them about this again i think, ---- Perhaps I'll phone next week (though as I said, I'm currently horribly busy).
what's quite interesting about audio description, is the fact that I know a fair few people with entirely functional sets of eyeballs who stil really like watching films with audio description. In fact one of my friends (who's ability to follow plot and general speed of uptake is rather less functional than his ocular apperatus), after watching audio described stuff with me, will actually always go to see audio described films himself, ---- often on his own! sinse he says it helps him follow what's going on more easily.
Actually last time I checked the list of audio described films on the RNIB online shop I think they had the full set of LOTR films on VHS.
Just checked and there are all 3, either individually or in a trilogy pack, here
Hope this helps.
As to the menu system, that type of environment based system has probably been used in just about every genre of game where you must return to a home location such as a base after each level or mission. I recall it has also been used in some flight sim games to a greater or lesser degree too, the ones that spring to mind are Gunship 2000 and Strike Commander. I could list a whole bunch of space combat games that used this system too, to greater or lesser degrees of immersiveness, but with the XWing series being the most probably. You even had a registration office for you to pick your pilot, presumably so you could have more than one for different people, and in Tie Fighter if you moved the mouse over the door without either selecting a pilot or typing in a new name the stormtrooper on guard would even switch from attention to a ready position with his rifle readied and pointed straight at your viewpoint position.
Dark, you have my undieing admiration for making it through The Silmarillion. I couldn't do it, and believe me, I tried. Sadly, haven't gotten a hold of The Hobbit yet. Must fix that problem.
I will note t hat I do not use audio-described LOTR versions. My partner is very good at describing scenes (she's wonderful at it, actually), plus I have the scripts (theatrical and extended) to work with. And about a million Elvish sites marked, as well as knowing every line of the movie pretty much dead-on, to the point where I know the Elvish well enough to quote and not need to ask subtitles or look at said scripts.
For reference, stupidring.com is the place where I get the scripts from -- along with some good crackfic...
I will agree with all that's been said about games and movies. I'm rather more partial to some characters in the movie (E.G.: I love the spin given to Elrond, and the development of Arwen as someone with at least half a brain, as well as the reluctant Aragorn -- I always felt he was a bit to gung-ho for my taste in the books). I love my games, though, simply because they are two (three counting FOTR) of the games I can handle. FOTR is usually dealt with in my capacity as observer, much as I do with the Spyro games, where someone else plays and I enjoy the storyline being played out. Can't wait for Spyro: The Eternal Night.
But I digress.... And probably bore everyone with my rambling (blame lack of sleep).
And no, I have no life.
Yeah, I see what you mean. The BBC play was a good one, though I find it odd it sort of ties in all three books as one package.
chuckles. I see what you mean again when you said the fact that Gandalf put that statement rather mildly. But that's what I like about the moovies. There are things I don't like, of course. But the fact that they actually show Gandalf and saruman's brief fight does help cary the story.
As for seens, which ones would you like to be described? Like I said I have both moovies, the first two, and can describe them for you based off the ITFC descriptions.
I've actually read the Silmorilion as well... and astonishingly, made it through to the end. Considering the fact I'm fifteen and am in English ten I am rather proud of myself! lol. As for the scripts... hmm. I could probably have every line dead on, but have never tried. I feel confident about the elvish though... thanks for the site, I want to see the scripts..
Namarie
I spelt it right, just can't get the accent because of the way jfw pronounces it. Just check the spelling for the definition of the elvish term. lol. I say to you again, and for the last time! Namarie!
I amar prestaraen. Han mathon ne nen, han mathon ne chai... galadriel, the Fellowship of the Ring film.
Wel Assault freak, that's a very kind offer, but sinse if Cx2 is right about there being audio described copies available then that will be fine. also, much like Lorien's partner, my brother is highly adept at describing bits I need described, and I've watched all the films through with him (and that's the extended versions of course), several times.
appologies, but as I myself first read The silmarillion at age 12, in braille, I'm afraid I'm not overbearingly impressed Assault freak, -- lol! i actually really loved the language it was written in, not to mention finding out all the history, and I remember reading through the first volume (first of eight), in one evening, which took me past the birth of the Quendi I believe. I remember being rather amazed at just how old Galadriel really is!
As I've said, I think the lack of bog standard fantasy hack and slash violence is one of the strengths of the book, ----- though of course before Tolkeen, there hardly was! any standard fantasy (and in some ways, I wouldn't count Tolkeen as fantasy anyway).
I'm afraid I disagree with you on several points Lorien. While I did in fact like the fact that you saw a lot more of Arwen in the film, the hole character change for Elrond seemed incredibly odd.
His grand father on one side, and great grand father on the other were both men (which amusingly enough, makes him elrond five eighths elven!), and his brother was first king of Numenor (blasted Hal and Accents).
He also basically acted as Aragorn's father while Aragorn was growing up, which is how Aragorn and Arwen met.
Aragorn and Elrond are both fully aware of what Aragorn is going to do as far as becoming king goes, so there's no forbidding involved.
the main point of Lotr for me was always about the hobbits. compitant Aragorn was just a necessary foyle for the various hobbits, and also tolkeen's litle nod in the direction of traditional legends, ---- such as the tales of King Arthur, where there's always a long lost prince somewhere.
the Anxt for Aragorn in the film really got on my nerves to be honest, sinse it transformed him totally, and just made him the fairly standardized hollywood anxt-wridden hero we always seem to get in films these days, ----- whatever happened to Luke Skywalker!
Please don't make a mistake, I did really enjoy the films. the way they showed the journey, and the charactorization of people like Saruman and Gandalf was just fantastic. I just rather wish they hadn't fallen slightly into hollywood cliches in certain parts.
for some highly good articals on the Lotr films, and the differences betwene films and books (some significant, some just vaguely interesting), see The encyclopedia of Arda Which also happens to be my favourite tolkeen site as well!
The game menue thing sounds good Cx2, I particularly like the litle touch of the storm trooper giving you that sort of warning.
Oh, and Lorien, it is not in the least sad to observe computer games, it's something I've done for years. Games I've seen played through from end to end (often with helpful reading), include final fantasy 7 and 8, Xenogears, (which has actually changed my life in several ways), Secret of Mana, the first two Resident Evil games, ----- and the list runneth on!
Dark,
I actually have no real beef with the opinions expressed. Whatever floats peoples boat, I think; and we all have different opinions on what works and doesn't in film verses book. I saw some basis for Elrond's character in the discussion seen at the end of ROTK, where it is mentioned that his parting from Arwen is less than friendly. However, I can see your point on Aragorn's character -- please keep in mind that I was introed to LOTR via the movies first (which I did not mention) rather than books, which does I believe make all the difference.
Wow, I've digressed, haven't I? Still, this topic is quite a fun one...
Well, any topic with me in it seems to digress, but as long as it's fun.
As far as opinions go, well you are right about the less than friendly parting from Elrond detailed in the appendicies, ---- maybe that was where they got it from, but in general, not just towards Aragorn I thought Elrond was rather harsh.
As far as opinions go, I'd like to think I'm not one of these people who lets a difference of opinion go to far, ---- imho these sorts of discussions can get rather too heated on occasions (having studdied philosophy for quite a long time, amicable disagreement is something I've had to learn), and I won't dislike anyone anytheless for having a difference of opinion.
As a complete tolkeen fanatic, I'll probably be wwatching the films in a slightly different light anyway.
It's actually great that seeing the films got you to read the books. I can highly recommend the Hobbit, in fact my dad read that to my brother and I when I was about 4 or 5, so I've really grown up with it. he started reading us Lotr afterwards, but gave up somewhere along the line and bought us the radio play instead, ---- then of course when I was 7 or 8 I got the audio versions of the books myself. So, I've really quite seriously grown up with Lotr, so I probably am fairly dedicated.
to drag this hurtling topic back in the vague direction of Starwars, I actually remember going to a cinema to see return of the Jedi at about age 6 or 7, (that would've been in 88-89, so probably a repeat screening), though as my brother was a major starwars fan at the time I mildly avoided it, ---- it being my brother's thing not mine. I was much more a Heman and ninja turtles fan, ----- and in fact I now own the 1st series of original Heman on Dvd (though annoyingly no sign of the original turtles yet).
Lol! Ah, well, in that case... never mind my impressing attempts. haha. Joking.
The Silmorilion was indeed written in good language. I loved it.
As for the stuff about Aragorn and Elrond, I have to agree. Elrond is so... I don't know. Harsh. When he was talking to gandalf he sounded like he was the eternal pecimist. lol. "I was there the strength of men failed. The blood of Numanor is all but spent! The race of numanor has ended..."
Well, you get the point. I still like the moovies though. Like I said, the movies don't do the book justice in a lot of areas. But when they make the seens the book doesn't describe, you have to give them credit. EG gandalf bent sent spinning through the roof onto the pinical, and then leaping off the roof on the Guaihir's back. And when Boromir starts hacking down orks even though he's been shot in the shoulder and stomach by arrows.
As for Arwen... hmm. I don't know. She didn't seem like her book self. But that could be just me. And like I said again, they make Maggit sound like a jerk.
You know, I play goalball nationally, meaning I'm on the junior team for my province. There are a lot of LOTR fans on the team and we've been thinking up team cheers for a while now. Teams don't conventionally have team names but sometimes do, especially in the states. A lot of us were thinking to call ourselves the warriors of numanor. If I'm not mistaken they spoke elvish as well, if my memory of the silmorilion is right. The phrase everyone was thinking was the phrase from the movie Aragorn used at helm's deep. "Herio!" Meaning charge. Though of course it's not pronounced that way. For all other elvish fans aside from me you'll know it's more along the lines of hehrio.
Nice! though charging and goal ball don't exactly seem to go together somehow.
One thing that slightly confused me in the film (particularly with Arwen), was the way that so much elvish was just whispered. I know the pronunciation was there, but I wish people had just spoken it alloud. Accept for Galadriel though, nobody actually did. Arwen actually seemed to whisper quite a lot for some odd reason, ----- especially as various stage directors have repeatedly told me to speak up during imotional scenes.
Boromir in the films was indeed fantastic! I was slightly worried when I first heard sean been as Boromir, sinse the thing I know him best in is as sharpe, the slightly scummy and highly compitant soldier in the napoleonic wars, ---- the books by Bernard cornwell are all available as commercial audio as well, and most deffinately worth reading.
but anyway, getting tack to Lotr, sinse Sharpe is rather scummy, and a bit of a womanizer, I wasn't exactly sure how Sean been would translate into Boromir, but he did a fantastic job!
I just love the scene where he's kneeling on the floor with several arrows through him, unable to get up, and all the orcs just walk unconcernedly passed.
In fact, apart from Frodo, I was really mightily impressed with the Fotr film, and remember coming out of the cinema quite surprised at what had been done. Even Aragorn seemed much closer to the book version in that film, ----- though he stil did have a litle bit of imho unneccessary anxt going on there.
but I loved all the stuff with the ring, and the whispering voice of Sauron, and the orcs destroying all the trees in Isangard. Saruman was another surprise, sinse I always thought of him the way he's portrayed in the radio play, as being an insinuating character with a soft persuasive voice, ---- I just love what the Bbc do with the reverb thing on Peter Howl's voice there.
In the film though we had Christopher Lee, ----- man of mighty presence! and yet, it was great!
For language Assault freak, I actually enjoyed the unfinished tales. true, it's obviously not canonical, sinse it's early draughts and manustripts that Tolkeen left lying around in his notes, but some of them are great, ----- like a detailed explanation of how the sun and moon were formed from the flower and frute of Lurelin and telperion, and descriptions of the dwelling places of all the Valar, ---- which are really nice.
It also gives a bit more prominance to Valar who seemed slightly unneccesary in the Silmarillion, such as Vana and nienor, ----- in fact the description of nienor is down right creepy!
Anyway, I've rambled on enough, especially as I have significant amounts of work to do today.
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