2015-07-28 16:44:20

Well if people are wondering where I've been the answer is fairly simple.
on Saturday morning Avg decided to create a major error at windows startup, and unfortunately because it's causing my desktop to crash before supernova starts I cannot fix it and I didn't have another machine (I attempted to use safari on my Iphone on this forum but that was a dysmal failure).

I'm not worried about my xp machine. I know a shop who will gladly fix it, and even if they need to completely wipe the drive, well nothing on there isn't already backed up on my externals. However, this has made me have a think.
i still see little point in Windows 7 plus, owing to the lack of compatibility and stupidity of interface, however the one thing I'm running into trouble with on xp is net browsing, mostly because silly microsoft won't update the browser properly.

So,  on Saturday I made several phone calls, including one long helpful one to an Irish chap at Apple customer services and I've decided to buy a mac desktop as an internet only machine.
This means essentially my Xp box (when fixed), will be used for all media, games, watching dvds etc, but net browsing and probably e-mail will be happening on a Mac.
I have checked, and it will still be possible for me to say download the setup file for a game like the wastes and stick on a usb to transfer into my xp machine (which is also plugged into some amazingly good logitech quad speakers and a 40 inch screen).

I will also still be able to use the xp machine for things like muds or playing beatstar when I plug the ethernet cable in, though I suspect it will be offline most of the time.

This setup I think will give me the best of both worlds. I wasn't going to go with two machines, but I've found aspace in my flat that will fit a mac desktop, and sinse the thing will connect wirelessly there is no worries there.  I will be getting the solid state drive with the quad core proecessor (though only the 256 one sinse I don't plan on advanced video editing), though I haven't yet decided whether to  get the 21 or 27 inch monitor, indeed that brings me to my question.

Tomorrow I am going to go and try a mac out, and unless I end up hating what I see I'll probably be phoning Apple on Thursday and having one delivered on Friday, (I might end up buying one tomorrow though I suspect it'll prove cheaper to buy from Apple themselves, plus they deliver).

I was therefore wonderingly firstly what are some basic vo commands I can use tomorrow just to get started, sinse unfortunately there are no dedicated apple shops near me and I doubt the staff at the reseller I'm going to go to will know about Voiceover.

The Irish chap from Apple (who was a gamer himself), said it's command F5 for startint Vo, the vo key (which is the function key), and d to get to the ock where you can hit left and right arrows to go through folders, and the vo key and a to document read. he also said tab would do as flicks do on Ios. is that correct?

I will also need to look at exporting my favourites from outlook express and saving them as bookmarks in safari, indeed the hole bookmkmarks thing especially with creation of subfolders is something I'll need to look into sinse I've not used the feature on my Iphone owing to Safari on an Iphone not working very well.

anyway, any thoughts or suggestions or vo commands from other mac users welcome.

Btw, no I do not plan to go entirely mac, indeed if I threw away my xp box I'd have to resign as admin of this site, plus I'd  get very pissed indeed! at silly Apple's ignoring my folder structure and organization of media, not to mention miss my dvd collection.
Many things Apple does well, other things itt does not.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2015-07-28 17:17:41

First of all, you're getting ripped off. You can get a windows virtual machine with vmware fusion or do bootcamp. It'll be cheaper to get windows on your mac then getting an old machine fixxed. If you have no vision, I'd reccomend the macbbok air because it's the thinnest laptop that apple has, and itt has 11 to 14 hours of battery. Vo can be used with the trackpad. Press control, which is where you'd expect it to be on a laptop with a fn key. Press tha  with option, which is where the windows key normally would be, then with the VO keys held in, do the roter gesture that you do on your phone and the trackpad will be set to be used for navigation and as a substitution for the keyboard, with the acception of typing or using it for anything else . The trackpad commander is for navigation, and interaction only. You have all your iOS gestures. Swiping, scrolling, and the like. 2 finger swipe right interacts with items, 2 finger swipe left, well, does the opposite, respectively.

Power is not the responsibility of freedom, but it is actually the responsibility of being responsible, it's self, because someone who is irresponsible is enslaved by their own weaknesses.

2015-07-28 17:31:51

Hello, As for basic VO commands yes, you got some of them, but one thing is not just by using your up and down arrows but yes you can do that to move through folders and such, but if you want to get some more information of what you are navigating around VO up, down, left and right arrows will do the trick. Interacting and stop interacting commands are vary important as it allows you to see what's inside an element of an item. For example, if you are focused on a list and you want to see what's inside that list, you would press VO + shift + down arrow. To stop interacting with that item, press VO + shift + up arrow. If you want keyboard help, press VO + K and escape to get out of keyboard help. Just a note, if you do get a mac, and when you turn VO on, it will ask you if you want to start the voiceover tutorial. That can be a good thing to do because it goes over all of the commands and it's interactive as well. If you have any more questions, feel free to let me know. Oh and just to let you know, the form system works quite well with mac and I'd say, a little better than windows sense this new version of Pun PB came out, note that windows, doesn't show you how many posts a user has right after the thread at least, I haven't found a way to do so, but mac tens to show a lot more info. I'm not sure if it's the way that they have created this new version but yeah.

Jonathan Candler, A.K.A, Jonnyboy

2015-07-28 17:41:25

Greettings!

Yep, definitely better to just get VMWare Fution, and use Windows XP with that.
BTW, no sighted assistance is required. Sadly, that old main menu show where it was demoed, is now longer "easily" available online.
In the mean time, since you are getting your first mac,
http://www.applevis.com/new-to-mac

2015-07-28 17:48:51

@Techmaster 20, I wouldn't consider virtualization, for one thing it's too much hassle, for another I still like my big speakers and 40 inch monitor and dvd drive, all of which i'd have to give up on a mac, aside from the fact that god knows how virtual windows handles external drives and media and such. 
I looked at the mac book, but decided against it on the basis both of the fact that desktops tend to be more reliable, and because I don't know what I'll be doing in the future that I might need the mac monitor for sinse goodness knows what will be available online at a later period as regards films etc..

As to the trackpad, thanks that information might be helpful particularly when I'm trying vo out. I hadn't particularly thought of using the trackpad for vo gestures but that could be useful at speeding things up, although I suspect that there will still be lots of things I'll want to do with the keyboard (as I said I'm not keen on safari with a trackpad).

@Jonnyboy1991, that is odd, sinse the number of posts and other information is all available in ie8. I actually noticed when trying out safari on my phone some stuff was missing, like for example the "login/logout" link, plus it wouldn't interact with buttons but I assume this was due to the screen size.
The vo tutorial on mac will be useful and again that is handy to know. I did have a chat to the apple fellow about folder structure and he said that you can get the mac to display information in streight out lists with sublists like xp (which is one of my main beefs with windows 7, sinse frankly i don't like all these sprawling columns and ribbons and modern interface design, give me streight up locations I can enter and open), but I don't imagine I'll be able to play with the view settings on the mac I try out tomorrow, so knowing those commands will help, indeed I suspect that whatever display mac I try out in the shop will not have had vo run on it before so I'll wind up in the vo tutorial, still it'll give me an idea of the mac's interface and capabilities which is mainly what I am interested in finding out.
From what I've discovered thus far I'm already %60 sure I'll end up getting one but it'd be foolish not to try one out first, plus deciding what size of monitor I want will only be possible when I see the thing.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2015-07-28 18:20:34

Virtualization isn't as hard as it seems. With Bootcamp, if you use the talking installer, you have to use an external sound card, because Idiot apple doesn't let windows load the mac's internal sound card's driver until windows is installed, and you'll have to have sighted assistance with bootcamp. With vmware, you just click new, choose your iso file, or if you have an install disk, choose your cd drive. You then choose your OS, then click next. You can customize your vm ram, and processor cores. Then, click done. I'tll automatically start the install. Even better, if you don't have a talking install, you can choose easy install if you're doing it from a  disk. You can also migrate your pc into a vm. So, virtualization is far better than unreliable bootcamp which likes to break it's self, and it can't run xp. Furthermore, you can run more than windows with vmware. You are getting a better deal, as far as accessibility, reliability, and ease of use, with vmware fusion. With bootcamp, you have to restart the mac to use windows, you can't use the talking installer unless you buy a usb sound card. You have to have sighted assistance with the partitions and such, before you can use the external card for speech. Bootcamp requires partitions which gives you less space for your mac, and vmware puts a file on your drive, no partition needed. People are switching to vmware every day, so they added the ability to make a vm out of a bootcamp partition. And, you can use your moniter with your mac, if you have a VGA to usb adapter. If it's already usb, great. Your sound system will work as well.

Power is not the responsibility of freedom, but it is actually the responsibility of being responsible, it's self, because someone who is irresponsible is enslaved by their own weaknesses.

2015-07-28 19:30:12

Well all of that is a pretty good arguement for keeping my xp machine, sinse all this vmware and boot camp and installations and sighted assistance mallarchy is far harder than, ---- well just pushing an on button big_smile.
I'm really not interested in "running other systems" I just like Xp sinse other than browsing the internet it's still my preferd system for everything from dvds to media to games, (mostly audiogames and text but some graphical ones in there too which is why I want to keep the big screen), indeed if stupid microsoft just did with xp what they did with 98 and made the upgrade fully compatible with everything previously I would have upgraded Windows long ago.

As to my tv, it's actually a 40 inch plasma flat screen tv not a standard monitor, which is why I want to keep it, and I like my speakers as they are, indeed in general I'm very happy with xp and what I do with it, I'm only getting the mac really for use on the internet sinse that is the one area where xp is having problems, or rather where stupid microsoft have made xp have problems with their dropping of support in an attempt to sell their newer, less compatible and harder to use rubbish.
Then again this topic was about mac questions not an arguement about virtualization, so I'd probably better not steer things off track.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2015-07-29 16:01:51

Well I tried out a mac this morning for an hour or so. I was not going to sit and go through the entire vo tutorial, but there were two things I specifically wanted to learn, could vo navigate the basic filing system on a mac including copying files, and would safari work.
We had a little prevarication, firstly because the shop had some software running that made vo stop interacting with folders, and I confess I got a bit concerned sinse not being able to open the downloads folder is bad, however once the guy at the shop logged me in as an admin it went okay.

I was able to access a memory stick and copy a file, which was useful. 

Safari didn't work out as well, because when I loaded up google I could only tab between the google search button and the box. When I arrowed down the page vo stopped reading at the image google had to download google chrome and wouldn't go beyond it. I  used command option A to read the hole thing, but couldn't go between links, and the chap (who was reading vo instructions but didn't use vo himself), couldn't find an answer. Eventually random poking determined that it's command option left and right arrow.

In general it seems to do what I want, which was what I wanted to know, however I don't like the fact that there are so many dam keyboard shortcuts for use with vo. Supernova (and I'm pretty sure most other windows screen readers), can be used basically with the arrows, the tab key and one key for document read, plus enter to activate stuff.
Vo seemed to constantly need different weerd combinations of keys to interact and move around different things rather than making one standard set, heck even enter didn't work for things like opening folders.
I  will of course get used to this, but after how simply vo is designed for the Iphone it does seem rather needlessly complex and I'm surprised the thing is so over designed.

I also do hope web page navigation is a little less clunky sinse having to read each page entirely then go through links and not even being able to use the arrow keys efficiently to read down the page, let alone skipping around to headings, text areas, buttons etc, could be rather time consuming. I assume there are better skip keys kicking around, but I was disappointed with the performance of the basic arrows with something as standard as google, or even the front page of this site.

Will it do what I want it to do? Yes, once I've learnt how to use it.
Do I think it's an ificient system? not currently, which  frankly did surprise me, sinse as I said, I found vo on the Iphone extremely easy to pick up and I would've assumed the mac version would be similar. any thoughts would be much appreciated.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2015-07-30 14:09:11

One thing that did occur to me that I'd like to know the answer to, is how do you click on textual hot spots on a mac?
What I mean is, in games like Drakor or puppet nightmares there are lots of game controls that aren't buttons or links or edit areas, they're just bits of text you need to click on. I know how to do this in windows with supernova, but in voiceover? I don't recall seeing anything similar.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2015-07-30 14:47:58

You use the roter.

Power is not the responsibility of freedom, but it is actually the responsibility of being responsible, it's self, because someone who is irresponsible is enslaved by their own weaknesses.

2015-07-30 15:12:34

Regarding the whole virtualization thing, VmWare Fusion is good for most Macs nowadays. With my old 2007 iMac, it sucks. Not enough processing power and ram. I'm forced to use Bootcamp. I want to upgrade this partition to Windows 10, but not sure where to get a cheap USB sound card.
Also, once setup begins, how do you enable Narrator?

2015-07-30 15:13:03

"use the rotor" How exactly? Do you mean you setup vo to work off the pad as you said like it does on Ios and then find and double click on the text?

This is something I'd like to be clear on before I start with a mac, sinse obviously I play a lot of browser games and some of them have fairly gnarly controls.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2015-07-30 16:41:24 (edited by Sebby 2015-07-30 17:04:34)

You probably have the right idea with a dual-computer setup, assuming that you really have the space for it. Obviously, I'd like to encourage you to consider the many benefits of ditching that diseased OS altogether (which, incidentally, does include looking at later versions of Windows, including the just-released Windows 10), but I think you're probably correct all the same, at least in respect of games; an offline computer just for games is a very good way to ensure you get the best audiogaming experience. You could conceivably move to a VM at a later time. A VM means, for example, that you can recover from the situation you were in by rolling it back.

In Appleland, the general rule of thumb is that the bigger you are, the faster you can go. Therefore, if speed is the only objective, then bigger is always better. However, I advise you to get the Apple Store app for your iPhone and explore your options; since you're just starting out, it probably makes a lot of sense to start smaller. If you're right and this really is just web and email, you may even give some thought to a MacBook Air which is very small, gives you an additional laptop, and will be just fine for that task. You can, of course, also visit the Apple Store online. Bear in mind that a purchase, once made, is fairly final; there are few things you can upgrade after purchase, so make sure you spec out a machine you will want to keep for a while. Check the options when building it.

The VoiceOver Getting Started Guide can be found here. I don't know how well it will work in IE8, but it will render fine on iOS and of course OS X. You can get to it, and all other help facilities in VoiceOver, with the command Control-Option-H--that is, VO-H. The VO keys are the control and option keys pressed at the same time with other keys.

When you go to the store you will need at least Command-F5 to turn VO on/off. Turn the volume up, if you can, so that you hear the tutorial. If the tutorial doesn't start you can find it in the help menu described earlier. Try your best not to frustrate; the tutorial will tell you all the basics. For a very quick start, though, use VO-K to get keyboard learn to find all the keys on the keyboard, and VO with up, down, left and right to navigate; VO-space to perform default action; and VO-shift-down to interact or VO-shift-up to stop interacting. VO-rotate-clockwise on an available trackpad, and you can have iOS-like gestures, too.

AppleVis has this pretty awesome and friendly collection of getting started resources. The macvisionaries mailing list ([email protected]) has some awesome people on it (including me) helping tormented Mac souls in their travels. I think you'll be fairly robust coming from Supernova, you. smile

Good luck, and don't give up too easily!

Just myself, as usual.

2015-07-30 16:50:31 (edited by Sebby 2015-07-30 17:10:44)

Click on arbitrary object: move mouse pointer to centre with VO-Command-F5; click with VO-Shift-Space.

I prefer Column View in the Finder. You don't need the VO keys to navigate in columns; up/down to move there, left to ascend the tree, and right to descend into it. Lovely. But lists are available, if you really prefer them.

Efficiency is a matter of opinion, but there does seem to be consensus that iOS is more intuitive than Mac OS. This is easy enough to explain: iOS uses a touchscreen for input, so anywhere is a target. On OS X you as a keyboard user get dragged kicking and screaming into the visual UI paradigm, and I think it's fair to say that Mac OS is not natively as keyboard-friendly as Windows (at least, XP) was. But there are few surprises, and once you learn how to get to the menus, and the Dock, and to navigate, you should be all right.

Your problem with Safari had to be fixed using a Safari preference in the Advanced tab. Don't worry; you can indeed make Tab move to every object, and not just to form controls.

QuickNav is available with left+right to toggle. That mode allows you to perform VO navigation just using the arrow keys. But I only make extensive use of it while browsing the web; at all other times, including just now, while I'm writing this post, it's off. Same while browsing in Finder.

Just myself, as usual.

2015-07-30 17:12:58

Ah, thanks Sebby, very handy information.
There is nothing "diseased" about xp, indeed the only "diseased os" I can see is later windows that drops 30 years of software support in favour of a crappy interface, but that is a conversation I've had elsewhere.
the mac interface I can have run as lists and at least it putsfolders in sensible places, for all I hate the way it handles media which is why I'll still be doing all my media stuff on xp through my good speakers.

I don't plan to have xp completely off line, particularly for things like muds and updating beatstar etc, although I won't do any net browsing with it and will likely move my e-mail over as well, indeed I'll probably just plug the ethernet cable in when I want to and leave it out most of the time.
The hole virtualization thing seems more trouble than it is worth, not compared to you know, just turning on a computer, besides as I said, I really don't see much point to windows post xp anyway, indeed if I did! see any good in post xp windows I'd probably just be getting windows rather than going with a mac.

The reason that I wouldn't consider a macbook can be  somed up in one word "screen!" While I don't plan to watch dvds on the mac, there is stuff to stream that I will need the larger screen for sinse 15 inch really is too small for me to see, and I don't know what internet based stuff will come up in the future.

Glad to know the click on text is possible though, as I said, the interactions with webpages were something I had to get used to particularly with how tab didn't work, and there are far too many web games that work entirely by clicking on hotspots, indeed if anyone has played drakor with a mac I'd be interested to know.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2015-07-30 17:17:02

OK, fair enough, screen. So get a 27-inch iMac, and spec it up to the maximum. Total cost is some £3000+. smile

But seriously, check AppleVis, and the Store. You can play with the configurations there; see what happens.

Just myself, as usual.

2015-07-30 18:43:15

Actually I've already decided on the one I want. I want a solid state hd, sinse it seems like a good idea, but I don't see the point in banging up the processor to hell sinse I'm not going to be doing any hyper complex video editing on the thing.

The 27 inch with a 256 hz  quad core, and solid state hd comes to about 1600, (or slightly less with a discount from Apple), which is certainly not cheap, but not insane, or rather I have enough by way of savings.
Howeer, if I'm going to spend that sort of moola, I want to be dam sure the thing will do what I wish it to do, hence the intensive questioning.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2015-07-30 18:52:57 (edited by Sebby 2015-07-30 19:11:15)

OK, cheapest 27-inch iMac with either 1 TB Fusion or 256 GB SSD is £1609. I'll check the refurb store in a moment to see if you can get it any cheaper, just now.

I suggest 1 TB Fusion (essentially an SSD and HDD combined); all the power of SSD without the sacrifice in space. But if you want just an SSD, you can of course do that, for the same price. 256 GB is OK for a data light setup, or dual-boot, but not if you intend having all your data on their too. You said you wouldn't so I suppose having the SSD only is a good thing in one respect: the hard disk spins inside, and not having it to jostle is a definite plus.

Now I'll check the Apple refurb store for the exact same iMac and I'll edit it in if I find it.

Edit: empty, sorry!

Just myself, as usual.

2015-07-30 19:16:38

I don't know about a refirb one, if I'm going to spend on the thing I might as well get  one that will last, which is also why I'm interested in the ssd primarily.

Processor 256 seemed reasonable given that I don't think  I'll be doing anything that processor intensive, after all I'm unlikely to be playing stupidly 3D graphical games.
With  storage devices being easy to come by, I don't really see the issue there, but all my books and music and what not will stay on my xp machine or on the hd's connected to it, sinse I don't like how the mac handles media, plus the speakers on my xp box are far better quality anyway.

As I said the mac is intended primarily as an internet machine.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2015-07-30 19:28:41

Apple refurb are very good; it's basically indistinguishable from brand new in my experience. My current iMac is still going and that was bought for £500 less, which of course made it very worthwhile for me. Having said that, I'd give it five years before thinking of it as having met quality standards, and it only came with a one-year warranty. I can still get AppleCare if I want, but I've not yet put the money down for that and won't until I have to.

SSDs can fail. Everything fails, eventually. SSDs tend to fail very suddenly. Obviously, you should be keeping backups, which is one argument in favour of a Fusion drive; with more space, you could do a backup to an external drive and have two copies. You'll have to think about where the master copy of your data will live, and how you will make at least one other copy of it. If that's your XP box, then maybe that's fine.

The processor is fine for your needs. You're right. But the memory gives me a weeeeeeensy bit of a pause. If you should ever virtualise a modern Windows on there, you may regret just the 8 GB. But as long as it's just for doing Mac Internet things, 8 GB is perfectly O.K.

As for media management: just don't use iTunes. Use VLC instead and you can continue to play your files/DVDs from external drives. Mac has read-only support for NTFS, so you must reformat your drive as FAT32 if you want both to read/write.

Just myself, as usual.

2015-07-30 19:52:47 (edited by pitermach 2015-07-30 19:54:53)

One other thing that probably needs mentioning is that when you have quicknav on, you can use typical keys like H to go by heading and what have you, though this needs to be turned on in VO's settings first.
When you get the mac, your best friend will definitely be applevis. There are a few beginner guides there, including one for safari. The other thing you should look for there are podcasts, specifically the mac basics series done by David Woodbridge. There's over 70 of them now I think and they deal with just about any task and are done from a perspective of very new users. You'll probably find a lot of things you will like about safari that IE just doesn't have. For one, it will check your spelling. You can also install extensions like uBlock which will prevent ads from loading, which will make sites load faster, less cluttered and easier to navigate. You can also bring up the reader view like in iOS. It strips everything from the page except the main content. Very useful on news articles.

Lastly, media on the mac most definitely doesn't equal iTunes. If you install VLC, you can use it pretty much like Winamp where you just click a file in finder and it opens. There's also a few nice apps you can get, like downcast which is a very nice pod catcher which also can sync with the iOS version of the app things like your playback position in episodes.

<Insert passage from "The Book Of Chrome" here>

2015-07-30 20:42:06

Hi there,

To clarify, IE 10/11 does let ya spell check, though its hit and miss, plus most screen do not recognize when you have come accross a spelling error.

2015-07-30 22:22:02

Ok, There's a 256 gig iMac with 4 gigs of ram and a 1.6 ghz quad core that has a flash memory based drive, so you'll get about 10 years out of that if you keep it clean and cool. You can get it for about 1800 pounds.

Power is not the responsibility of freedom, but it is actually the responsibility of being responsible, it's self, because someone who is irresponsible is enslaved by their own weaknesses.

2015-07-30 23:39:58

Yep, I know vlc works on a mac, but as I said,I like my xp box and winamp, I've got everything setup as I want there and I just need to play folders, plus I've configured it to work out of my quad speakers, oh, and the fact it plays all my whacky game formats helps too (I know vlc does some of these but I'm not sure how many), I'd also be disappointed if vlc won't play folders on a mac, I know it does on windows but on mac I'm not sure.
It's perhaps something I'd look into later if it seems like a good idea, but for now I'm mainly concerned with the internet angle.

It is entirely possible safari will do some handy stuff as far as add blocking and addons goes, indeed if I did not recognize that ie8 was having internet issues I wouldn't be bothering with changing hardware sinse it's not as if there are hundreds of mac games out there as there were with the Iphone.  apparently I can import my ie favourites into safari, which will be good sinse I have a lot! of favourites, also apparently the bookmarks can be organized into folders and presumably subfolders,  indeed if I can import all my favourites hole sale folders and all that would be good.

I suspect I'll be using the mac for most internet things, including mail when I've ported over my contacts, although I'll still be doing things like playing alteraeon and other muds on my xp machine, as well as say getting new beatstar packs, I just won't be online on it most of the time.

As to backing up data, well I don't plan to have bags of data on the mac, probably just documents and internet bookmarks and such and that will likely get an Icloud backup anyway, sinse media will still be going onto my xp box.
Last I checked my externals were all fat32 anyway, sinse that was the default.

What I'm mainly concerned about backup wise are my rather large collection of audiobooks, dramas and music, and my various games, and I'd need a hell of a lot of memory to store those, but that is what external hd's are for.
Right now my xp box has a 500 gb C drive containing all my games and programs and documents, with a second 1 tb E drive (the dvd drive is d), which has about 80 gb of assorted music, and a perminantly plugged in 2 tb external drive with about 900 gb of audiobooks and dramas.
Everything is also backed up on a 4 tb external drive which sits under my bed in a box.

So yes, backups not an issue big_smile.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2015-07-30 23:47:25 (edited by Sebby 2015-07-30 23:49:55)

iOS and Mac integrate very well together, so you'll probably notice that, but otherwise they're really different platforms for different purposes. I think it makes perfect sense that iOS gets a lot of new type of game because the whole format is different; as I think I've said most of the apps I have actively installed are now iOS ones. But Macs are still great for the expert stuff, media management (for me) and of course keyboard entry, specifically. Of late the convergence is becoming more apparent--sometimes to the detriment of one or the other, but usually the Mac--but just now they are different universes. I don't know how well you'll take to the Mac, but it decides whether or not you'd be willing to commit to it or just stick with what you know. For me, at the time I moved, I had a specific purpose and didn't like Vista, but your situation is quite different.

Just myself, as usual.