2015-05-21 21:08:37

Part 1 - background

Over the last couple of months on Alter Aeon, a lot of work has been going on under the covers.  We've been making pretty serious changes to the building tools, player and mob experience, and to areas in general.  I'd like to talk about a few of those and give some insight into what's happening.

This all started a bit after the 20th anniversary event in January.  From player complaints and some new data collection code, us builders started to realize that there were problems with experience at mid and high levels. The mid level experience problems were pretty easy to work out, and were largely fixed by changing the way that exp caps were calculated.

However, the high level problems were much harder to understand.  In the end, it's because we didn't think about areas properly when building them.

One of the most important things we realized when looking through areas was that we didn't actually have any concept of high level solo zones.  The only difference between a group area and a solo area was the level of the mobs in it, and because of that our group zones were a little too weak, and our solo areas were way too hard.

Something else we realized is that the difficulty of mobs was all over the place in most high level areas.  Some areas had decoration mobs, exp mobs, bosses, and super hard fame all near each other without warning.

On top of this, we've also recently discovered that the number of areas in the high level ranges is far from ideal.

All of these things combined have made high level exploring pretty dangerous and inconsistent.  They've also made the game far more difficult for high level solo players than it should have been.


Part 2 - what we're doing

One of the biggest and most far reaching changes we've been working on is to completely split group and solo zones.  We've now got solo areas, and areas that can be marked for various group sizes.  Our building tools look at the type of area, and the way mobs are built changes based on it.  Solo areas get built with much easier mobs that are are reasonable to solo, while group areas get built with much harder mobs based on the group size.

Under the old building system, a high level player might have been able  to solo their way through a lower level group zone.  That will be a lot harder once we get areas updated for the new system, but under the new system higher level players should actually have solo areas that make sense.

Another problem with doing all the updates at once is that we need to  think a lot harder about where high level areas are placed and how many high level areas there should be in each level range.  Right now we're leaning toward making a 'low level corridor' that stretches from Ralnoth to Orton and possibly Vandar, then increasing area level as areas get farther away.


Part 3 - now what?

The downside is that there's a lot of areas to update.  Even after we get the area levels worked out, we've got to go through a lot of zones and rebuild a lot of mobs to bring them up to spec.  It may be several months before all the kinks are worked out.

The upside is that we now know a lot more about what the problems are and how to fix them.  We've got builders looking at areas now and doing test changes and updating areas to see how the new tools are working.

When we're done with this, we expect it to be a major improvement to high level game play, making it on par with the low level player experience on the islands.

I'll post more updates over time as the work progresses.  Once we get this all under control, it should help open high level exploring to a lot more players and will really be a positive step forward for an already awesome game!

2015-05-21 22:11:02

This sounds really neat! Can't wait for what is to come!

2015-05-21 23:39:02

Great news!

I am pleased that mid range experience is being tweaked sinse I confess that is one reason why my playing of alter has at times been a bit sporadic, sinse I did find my progress into new areas etc around arkase seemed to go very slowly.

I am also glad to hear of the high level exploring fixes, sinse being someone who really doesn't enjoy grouping at all I was a little worried by what some people said regarding higher levels absolutely requiring grouping to go anywhere!  I'll drop a healing or protection spell on someone who needs it if I pass them in the wild, and I don't mind saying hi in chat or having a conversation while I wait for my mana to refill, but fundamentally I'm not really interested in playing with other people.
So I definitely like the idea of the solo and grouping areas being distinguished, and there being plenty of soloing to do at higher levels.

I do know that  it seems od for such an unsociable git as myself to go and play an online mud, and I will confess that had I access I probably wouldn't be playing online games at all but single player rpgs, however one thing I have enjoyed in Alter is the way the game does very nicely cater for explorer types like myself unlike some other muds and many browser rpgs I've played.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2015-05-22 00:49:12

It's not so much that higher levels "absolutely require grouping to go anywhere", it's more that higher levels were a lot harder and more chaotic than they needed to be.  You can do nearly everything solo if you know what you're doing and work hard for it, but IMHO it's not really reasonable to expect everyone to go through that.  It also means a lot of unfun drudge work.

For the record, I don't generally like grouping with other people that much either.  My attention span is too short. smile

2015-05-22 07:07:12

I did try grouping, but firstly I didn't like being dragged around with the follow command (especially through new areas), sinse I tend to prefer to explore  more slowly and take in the atmosphere and descriptions, and secondly I don't like being responsable for other people sinse I'm always worried that I'll miss some incoming text or otherwise mess up and get someone killed by say not noticing their in crytical, ---- I know MushZ and Alter itself have lots of triggers for this, it's entirely irrational on my part.

In fairness this is partly a personality thing, I'm not entirely a team player normally, even with things like music (solos or duettes are fine, but being part of a huge choire holds no interest for me at all).

I actually ought to give alter another go sinse I definitely fancy seeing how some of these new quests and the fetch item jobs work, although my character will probably need quite some rejiggerment given I am a cleric warrior necro so will want to do a bit of rebuilding, indeed sinse I've been experimenting with a couple of other muds for the database it'll be interesting to try alter again from that perspective.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2015-05-23 00:18:16

another long post, here's hoping it all fits here.
I personally enjoy solo myself.
While I don't mind being a punching bag for 1, or two more players, I do enjoy exploring large areas, searching for quests, and generally attempt to be more of a surviver type or a ranger than anything else.
I will admit to being spoiled buy several muds I've played before. Ones where you can make camp fires in the wild and cook animals that you hunt, skin them, butcher them, and cook the meat to get rid of hunger. Or fishing and cook the fish. Use the skins for clothing. Gather wood to build a rickety shelter or tent using various parts. Things like that.
I'm personally a bit stuck on there at the moment, and it's probably a bit of my own fault. It is, however, because of the problems they mentioned. I'm just high enough to take on middle to high level mobs, however sometimes I barely survive, or I take them down and they hardly give me any decent experience.
The bulk of my leveling was getting my skills up. I would practice it once, maby twice, and spend the rest of the time getting a skill up just for the experience it gives me. It was actually more easy to do it that way than to go hack and slash my way through levels.
That gets boring for me after a while. After I hack and slash a bit, then I want to go do something different.
Part of it is my personality I guess, like dark, I prefer to solo if I can. On the other hand, I don't mind grouping, usually with people a bit lower than me with various different and complimenting character archetypes.
That way we all benefit from the grouping experience. If I'm the tank, for instance, and I group with a cleric and a magi, we all play a part in the leveling experience. The punching bag takes the hits, the cleric heals them up or puts up protection spells, and the magi blows them out of the water. on the other hand... sometimes there's not a good enough incentive for me to group to begin with. some times i can provide no benefit to the group what so ever, other then being extra cannon fodder. Why not make a bard, gesture, blacksmith, or actor class, for those that enjoy heavy grouping. I would half to think up a bunch of skills that aren't already there for it to work properly though. You get where I'm going with this.
I do usually enjoy my experiences with the mud, although I will admit that if they added a bit of a survival aspect to the game I would play in longer spurts then I usually do.
I can only go around getting skills up for so long, and hack and slash so much before it gets boring to me. Then I go on to another game where I can role play a bit, and maby survive a bit in the wild, then come back to the other mud to do whatever.
Maby they could use a bit of the code that's already there to do something else? The camp fire skill, start fire, whatever it's called, skinning, and butchering skills, don't really have much use, for instance. I should remember that this game is not mush or moo or roast based though, so a few of the usual skills that I see on a few other games might not work or might half to be jerry rigged to work, but it might be able to happen.
Why go all that way to get butchering up to eat meat to heal, when it's more easy to get cleric up to cast a more powerful spell to heal yourself? Why get gather skills to gather wood or herbs unless you plan to brew with them, or unless you intend to gather up wood to start a fire? It's not worth the effort. Unless you enjoy playing that way. And sometimes I do.
I say take the butchering skinning, and camp fire skills and do some work with them code wise to give us another experience if you could.
Ironically enough, the same complaints I have about the mud are the same things I enjoy about it.
Yes I spent enough time bashing, it's time for the good aspects I enjoy about the game.
All those survival games I play? I half to spend time worrying about where my next meal is going to come from? I might starve to death. On this game, you don't get hungry. Sometimes I do enjoy that.
You can literally save up enough experience points to do whatever you want in this game.
That's the problem with coming up with a group heavy class for my above idea. You can spend enough experience to get the spells you need to assist in groups. If given enough time to get them properly. That wasn't a complaint, it was actually a good thing.
You can literally level your character however you want on there. I like that. A lot. It's one of the reasons why I keep coming back there.
Tired of butchering meat to heal up? Save up experience and get a few cleric levels under your belt. Tired of being the punching bag?
Get a few thief skills under your belt and go pick locks or bribe guards to get into spots. Better yet, get a few necromancer levels and summon a few minions to take the hits while you get your tanking skill up, or your spells up instead.
It's really all up to you.
Either way, I look forward to the new changes you are making. Like most that have posted before, I'll probably log on and give the place another try myself.
Sorry I was all over the place with this post, however I just wanted a bit of a moment to express myself on here. Despite all of my problems, or complaints I have about the game. I do half to give the guy credit. He has made this game loads of fun with the sound packs, and client/server side  modifications to make the game a good, nearly perfect experience for the blind community.
It's a game like this, that makes me come back every now and again, just to see what they modified, or changed.
I look forward to the new changes, and hope that there are more changes to come in the future.
Later,
neo

The eyes, unfortunately, are not the windows to the soul. They are, however, the windows to deception. Trust not what your eyes see, for they can be easily fooled.

2015-05-23 06:14:53

An interesting idea Mr. And! erson! but how will you play a mud when you have no hands to play it! big_smile.

Mmmmm, Sorry, (I just think Smith is cool).

On the one hand I agree I'd love to see some other activities in the game besides hack n slash. then again, alter is going that way. I am looking forward to trying the fetch jobs sinse I always find it much more interesting to go to an area (particularly one I have already explored), and be on the look out for six black spiders to kill for an npc than just to walk around depopulating the environment, even if it's a generic generation type of thing like Aardwolf has where your just randomly assigned one or more mobs to kill as opposed to being part of a pre written story.

Then of course there are jobs that specifically have other ways to get experience, like the druid's suntrap ability (I'm looking forward to trying some druid skills and indeed might replace druid as my 4th class rather than mage).

On the other hand, the combat in Alter is more fun than in most other muds I've played, sinse it does make a difference what you do, and you have to often think on your feet as opposed to just pounding away. Plus, I am not sure that a full scale wilderness and survival system would really be appropriate and correct for Alteraeon, just because of how many of the areas work, sinse alter seems to me more based on some specifically designed areas populated by mobs rather than having a generalized wilderness zone with randomly occurring materials and animals, much less one that you could do skills like woodcutting or crafting in.

Generally if I want that sort of experience I'll go and play Clok, which has taken the art of wilderness survival to a very fine detail, to the point that even making a campfire is an achievement and an involved process, not to mention the fact that the animals are realistically dangerous (don't pick fights with bison), and I happen to say I love clok for that reason.

But, why should Alteraeon just do what other muds do. If I want a realistic game where I need to manage food and cook it, think about cold, hunger and thirst, cut down trees and craft things, in a world where even a wolf can kill you and a trained human can be instantly deadly, I'll play Clok. If I want a great fantasy game where I can be a mighty warrior and slay my way through a deadly and twisted swamp full of evil undead and nasty creatures, or descend into a dragon filled dungeon to pick off nasty dragons, I'll go and play Alteraeon.

Thus, I'm not really convinced too many wilderness survival skills or changing the butchering and skinning would fit! in the game.

If I were to suggest some none combat activities in Alter, I'd suggest something more based on exploring and gathering and harvesting. Maybe some randomly occurring items would appear in an area that you'd need to find, eg you'd be told "the green spotted mushrooms are growing in so and so, go and find me 10 of them" , or maybe you'd need to go from one town to another say carrying goods for merchants or guarding a merchant's caravan.

I'd also love to see some expantions to the shipping mechanics with ship to ship combat, fights on the sea and lots of random places to discover, indeed perhaps some random sea encounters such as finding desert islands, having your ships attacked by seaserpent or  occasionally running across sunken treasure.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2015-05-23 06:57:41

Great ideas Dark and Anderson, though butchering did have its uses besides healing... Think of the times when you're famined and no cleric can remove curse for you. Or times where you are out of mana, but you had a tensorful of meat.
Also @Dark, getting the suncatcher ability for druids is nice, however since its around level 23 druid, it'll take you some time, especially if druid is your fourth class (like me), though I have to admit druids have a lot of breath spells -- and breath attacks seem to do a hell of a lot of damage at once. And druids also have spells to put up breath save... so yeah.

Team rocket's blasting off again!

2015-05-23 07:39:20

I actually think Thelok might need a little rejiggerment generally sinse when he was created there was no druid class and also clerrics didn't have that charisma thing, but I'll have a look.

I actually am considering restarting to try druid or some other classes, particularly sinse I'm fairly sure slo and Kordon have some new places to see sinse I last started, (and I know I can refund the practices I bought for another char),but then again I did put a lot of time and trouble into thelok to do lots of quests and raise lots of skills like his 100 perfect turn undead, so I don't know.

Hay, there's an idea! How about a new family character option whereby you could play a level 1 character, go back to Slo and Kordon to try out the new stuff or another primary class but still get some sort of tangible reward for your main character.

What I'm thinking is something like this, when you hit level 30, you get an option to create a son or daughter character of your main char who starts off on slo like a newbie and plays through all the quests etc afresh. Once that character hits level 20 (or gets to gad's landing), you get the choice of whether that character continues on as a main character or chooses a different life. if you choose the first option, that son or daughter character just carries on and you have two new chars to play. If you choose the second, your main character's son or daughter tells their ma or pa all about their adventures, but then decides to go off and be a family man/woman and quit adventurering, effectively making them lost perminantly. through listening to the tales of their son's/daughter's adventures though, your main character then gains an xp reward. I don't know how much exactly, but enough to be significant and mean that your time trying out a new class and the newbie islands again isn't wasted entirely.

Obviously it'd take some balancing, but considering that Slo and Kordon keep getting updates too and obviously more classes get added to the game this might be a fun option to try things out, sinse hay I'd love to try a primary druid or necro.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2015-05-23 07:48:34

I'd also like more non-fighting things to do. Yes, taking things from town to town would be good, maybe guarding someone from attacks by bandits or something, or maybe events to attend in towns or something, like tournaments or something like that.

Devin Prater
My Blog
Follow me