2007-09-01 14:51:00

hi,
I was just wondering is anybody getting board with the audio games out, think that there aren't enough coming out to satisfy you, or no any games with good replay value (accept audio quake) that keep you entertained and besides railracer as well?

Connor

2007-09-01 17:27:08

Well, Personally, sinse I play games as much for atmosphere as for exploration, I find that even symple rack up the score style games have replay value, let alone something like Shades of doom or Sarah.

As far as games go, I would like to see some more complex things being done, rather than more fast reaction arcade style games like Air hocky or duck hunt, ----- even though it has the original sound effects.

I know I've said this before, ----- appologies.

One thing that is new is that some very interesting projects are in developement at the moment. Sound rts is already fairly awsome, and hopefully it will just get better as it's developed. Audio Mario also has a good deal of potential, especially if the level editer idea comes about.

Then, even though it will be another point scoring game, Monti also appeals to me because of the maze aspects, though I can also see the arguement that Monti will just turn out to be another shor play game once you've explored your way through all the levels and know where the treasure is hidden, but then again, you could say that about any game.

thom ward also has some interesting plans for when monti is finished, and I don't just mean race way, ----- though racing games aren't generally my thing, I'll deffinately give it a go.

I also very much hope che martin will turn his talents to something complex and interesting. I was most impressed with Rail racer, and it'd be a shame if Mr. Martin goes on to just make symple games.

then of course, the Light tech crew are just getting better and better. I know for a Fact Robjoy is eventually interested in producing a more complex game. Though they've been fairly quiet for the last 6 months after the release of treasuremania 1, I think we're likely to get a pleasant surprise from them at some point.

Sadly, the Big 4 as I used to think of them, being Bsc, gma, Vip gameszone and Draconis, all seem to have fallen off a bit recently. I know Draconis were involved with Sarah, but I'm not certain to what extent, they also seem to have gone in more for the myspace and blog style services than games production, as have Vip gameszone with their file hosting thingy.

while this is perfectly fine and a good thing, I would like to see what else they could both do in terms of games developement, given their past successes.

I think though, I'm saddest about the lack of activity from gma, sinse they've come out with some truly fantastic and unique games, but don't seem to have produced anything new for about three years.

so, there are my thoughts. A mix of things, some good, some bad, but in general I'm mostly positive about audio games developement.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2007-09-01 17:41:44

Hi,
If you like racking up points, I think you'll be happy with Chopper Challenge and Bomb Blaster when they're released.

I'm also bored with the audiogames that are out, which is why I've turned to game development. I am most sad about what has become of Draconis, formerly ESP Softworks. Monkey business was the first game I ever played, and I like to think of it as a really good game. I also liked Alien Outback back then, but now it seems they're not making much new since it's been transfered from person to person it seems, and Alchemy is completely dead. Also GMAGames, all their games were good. It'd be nice if they created something new. The only game worth playing from Vipgameszone in my opinion is Galaxy Ranger, which no one ever seems to play much.

Regards,
Mike
Co-Founder, RS Games
www.rsgames.org

2007-09-01 18:12:37

To be honest, it's always the exploration and atmosphere of games that's the biggest thing for me. I like the idea of bomb blaster simply because I've heard there will be various different buildings to work your way around, finding different things, encountering different enemies etc.

I never actually care at all what score I get, in fact, I'd much rather have a low score and get to a new area, than spend loads of time going around the old area collecting all the stuff I'd found before in order to get a high score.

for vip gameszone, I'm not a big fan of their sports games, but then sports games in general aren't really my thing. I agree that galaxy ranger is great, even though the computer isn't the most intelegent of opponents, and I can never find another human player online when I am.

I also quite like lords of the galaxy, particularly the different environments and minigames in the game. I just wish they'd revise things so as to make the exchange cash option less open to abuse, and also give you more oppertunities to develope the planets you buy as with buying houses or hotels in monopoly.

Oh, and the computer opponents in that game are also rather dim as well.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2007-09-01 18:29:01

I admit I would like to see a lot more done. More variety of games using an interface similar to SoundRTS would be nice, covering both fast pace and slow pace games that require you to think more. I can imagine a flight simulator of sorts being possible too, or perhaps a space combat game. Something more than an arcade game. Maybe even a strategy game like the mainstream Battlezone from the late 90's combining the interface of something like GMA Tank Commander with something similar to Sound RTS, using a more detailed grid along the lines of Lone Wolf. You drive to a location, order a "builder" unit to make a structure and then it rolls over and gets to work for example.

Incidentally I wonder how many people noticed the slight error in the topic title.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2007-09-01 18:52:33

Lol yeah, it says board as in a game board, not bored.

Regards,
Mike
Co-Founder, RS Games
www.rsgames.org

2007-09-01 23:28:36

Board? with games? for that Cj should be pun nished guahahaha!

Seriously, I like the idea of more stratogy games Cx2, but I hope Sound rts has opened the way for other devs to think about the stratogy genre. I find it slightly strange to see a game like Sound rts, sinse I remember at one point last year discussing with Robjoy from Lighttech in an E-mail the way you might make such a game in audio, ----- (I remember sending that E-mail because my leg was broken at the time), and in fact a lot of the things I was considdering were actually done in Sound rts.

As for other game genres, well flight commander was supposed to be a reasonably detailed space combat flight sim. Unfortunately the chap who was working on the game submitted a concept demo for his Msc, but then stopped developing the game (I sent him an E-mail about it).

I also remember a hellicopter game being mentioned on this board a while ago, and there was even a sound demo of the game, but I haven't heard anything sinse then, so I'm not sure what's happened with the project.

As I've said before, an Audio rpg is what I'd be most interested in, but I also think it might be possible to create more detailed audio games, such as 2D platformers with levels you have to explore, or more games in 3D. Imho there are far too many, center the sound and press a button style games, and in that I'm counting the tenis varients, and Lwork's recent duck hunt game as well as all the space invaders clones.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2007-09-02 00:01:19

Flight Commander did sound to me a little pseudo-arcadeish, but still not bad. A helicopter game would be nice, there was a series of top down copter based games in the mainstream I forgot the name of but that might convert nicely if a little light on detail. A little like Tank Commander but in the air would be fun, naturally with a different gameplay structure and style. I recall the mainstream game gave you options of rescuing people and taking them to your base or base ship, and of destroying targets. Weapons were your gun/cannon, rockets and air to ground missiles. Maybe something like that could be made mixing in some other elements, such as randomising the map a little and additional mission types. I had a lot of fun playing a mainstream copter flight sim called Gunship 2000, oddly from the early 90's or before. You could be given missions to destroy targets, extract a downed pilot or deliver a squad of men or some supplies to a location, or indeed simply recon an area. The destroy missions sometimes involved finding the target, as the rescue missions always did, or even intercepting a moving target such as a group of tanks. It doesn't, and in the case of helicopters perhaps shouldn't or even couldn't be realistic in flight physics but it could be deep and engaging.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2007-09-02 03:44:45

It'd be nice to have a nice Flight Simulator. I used to play around with Microsoft Flight Simulator all the time and it'd be cool to have something like that as an audiogame. There's also the Simms, which I'm thinking of working on at some point.

Regards,
Mike
Co-Founder, RS Games
www.rsgames.org

2007-09-02 04:33:33

Interestingly enough, Yakir Arbib from Lighttech Interactive (although I don't know if he's still part of the team), was the first to express interest in developing an audio Metroid style game. I remember he Emailed me via this forum to ask me for the story to the Metroid saga.
  I tend to agree with Dark as I've said before. A true audio RPG would be most welcome. Of course what I'd really like to see is something along the lines of the Prince of Persia games. Sands of Time is probably my favorite in the series. I wasn't too keen on the SNES version, but then that might just have been because the music in the first level is enough to put you to sleep. But we definitely need a more challenging game, and even a game along the lines of the original Prince of Persia would qualify as such. Thatwas no easy game even in its first form. I mean you had those ledges to climb on and avoid falling off of, guards to fight off, potions of various kinds to drink, and of course, traps. Actually certain of the potions could qualify as traps since instead of healing you they'd actually hurt you or kill you. Then there was even a potion that would flip the entire world upside down (readers of Goblet of Fire might remember a scene in the final task of the Triwizard Tournament where Harry encountered a similar enchantment), and so you'd have to complete the level in up-side-down form or hope the potion wore off before then.
  As to the traps, you had the floor spikes that would shoot up and impale you and, my personal favorite, those smasher jaws that would cut you in half if you walked under them at the wrong moment. Even with a fairly low-quality sound card the sound it made was more than a little disturbing.
  But my favorite aspect of the original POP game was the time limit. If I remember right you had sixty minutes, maybe a little more, to find and slay the Vizeer and rescue the princess, otherwise she would die and the game would end.
  I could see a lot of the Prince of Persia atmosphere being captured with audio alone. It might even be possible to produce a game just as challenging and captivating. I can only hope that someone someday decides to attempt it.

But wait, what's that? A transport! Saved am I! Hark, over here! Hey nonny non, please help!

2007-09-02 09:15:26 (edited by dark empathy 2007-09-02 11:06:44)

The helicopter sim your thinking of Cx2 sounds a lot like the Desert strike series. they basically played like larger versions of gma tank commander, with 12 missions per map and much larger maps. I got the vague idea that the chopper game mentioned earlier this year was that sort of game. Admittedly I don't think the desert strike games were all that realistic, sinse you were always stuck at 1 hight (accept when landing or taking off), but they certainly would work exceptionally well as audio games.

It's funny, but people seem to have been reading my mind in this topic. For one thing, I'm just on a read through of all the Hp books (finishing with deathly hallows), and finished goblet of fire on Wednesday. More ontopically though, i also once wrote a sort of concept explanation on the Retroremakes forum about how to create an audio version of original Prince of Persia.

Imho Prince has the potential to make an audio game almost exactly the same as the graphical version, sinse everything in the game works on a very clear and precise positional structure, with each screen containing exactly three levels and a roof, all made of a maximum number of tiles, with your character's movements very precisely measureable, ----- eg you can walk 2.5 tiles at each footstep, or 1 tile at each sneaking foot step, can jump gaps of at max 2 tiles standing, 3 tiles with a run up, or 4 tiles with a run up and a grab on the 4th tile etc.

Once on the retroremakes site, I actually laid out a bit of a schema of how to create an audio version of original prince of persia, but unfortunately nobody took up the idea. Imho audio Prince of persia has the potential to be a near exact convertion of the main stream game, because! everything is already worked out so finely. And as Brian said, you've got the oppertunitiy for some quite grusome sound designing, with spikes, gillotines, falling tiles, crushing rocks, flames etc.

Heck! because everything in the game is so clearly worked out a level editer would be relatively easy to put together (though I'm probably getting carried away here).

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2007-09-02 16:30:55

ok,
I would like to see that helicopter and bomber games that were mentioned.
ps: sorry I spelled that wrong

Connor

2007-09-02 22:33:45

Yeah I think it was Desert Strike. A mix of Desert Strike and Gunship 2000 would be nice. Complete helicopter physics would be impractical, since it is a complete nightmare to handle them - trust me.

As to Microsoft Flight Sim, it was interesting but again I think they were far too detailed for their own good. They went for the ultimate in realism rather than being designed to be fun for the average person, they were aimed at people who had a serious thing for aircraft. I think having more flight controls than pitch, yaw and throttle would be a mistake for a plane based flight sim. Naturally that would vary for helicopters, but still would need to be simplified enough.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2007-09-03 01:27:04

Do you mean Chopper Challenge? That might be out pretty soon, like I'm not gonna give any dates but I'll tell you that the game has been developed and works enough to be tested, but Bomb Blaster will take a lot longer.

Regards,
Mike
Co-Founder, RS Games
www.rsgames.org

2007-09-03 03:38:00

I still think Prince of Persia would make an excellent audio game. Granted something like Sands of Time might be tough to do, but the original Prince of Persia, or a game along those lines, might be doable in audio.

But wait, what's that? A transport! Saved am I! Hark, over here! Hey nonny non, please help!

2007-09-03 12:03:59

Well as i said Brian, imho original Prince of persia could be the most exact conversion of a graphical to audio game we've seen yet, because of the precision in the game design, and because all the action (sword fights, climbing etc), happens very close to the main character and thus would be easy to render using sterrio sound and pitch. a coordinates system would also be incredibly reasonable as well.

As to hellicopter games, as always I'll give chopper challenge a bash, though I'm most looking forward to bomb blaster because of the maze and exploration aspects. I remember Damian Sadler from X site even said something about a level editer for the game, which imho would be cool! I've always been slightly sorry that Draconis never really encouraged people to use the dyna man level editer, by having a levels exchange page etc, the way that Che martin has done for the rail racer tracks.

I'd love to see a full exploration game with a good level editer, so that people could create their own mazes with nasty surprises and monsters and such. It'd be great if tom ward for example, could release a level editer for Monti when the game comes out (though with Raceway to finish and other jobs I don't know if he'll be able to get around to it).

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2007-09-03 15:17:53

i think a good game will be:
2 versions of the same thing:
1. a hack and slash rpg, with lots of battling, questing and such. but not so repetetive.
2. exploration rpg, with not so much fighting but with fighting in it. well that what an rpg kind of is.
would be brillient. i like the system in lord of the rings return of the king,
where you use a s w and d to walk, and the numpad to do lots of different attacks. quite cool.

2007-09-03 16:55:19

Actually for once i agree. A level editor might not be entirely out of place in a Prince of Persia game. In fact, though I could be completely and utterly mistaken, I seem to remember at least one of the Prince of Persia games featuring such an option. Then you could set up entire stretches of your level consisting only of traps {muahahahaha!} I seem to remember a few occasions in the original POP game where you had several different traps almost right next to each other, so you had floor spikes to jump, then a cutter to avoid.
  Sands of Time had cooler traps though. Not only were there the spikes in the floors and the slicers, but there were also spinning spiked poles, swinging logs and buzzsaws, all of which would either cause you considerable damage or kill you instantly depending on the trap. Then of course there were the guards and other enemies roaming the corridors of the palace.
  I just had another thought for a good audio game, something along the lines of Diablo. I liked the original but since it was mouse only I could never play it. Pity, because the music was cool.

But wait, what's that? A transport! Saved am I! Hark, over here! Hey nonny non, please help!

2007-09-03 17:28:37

personally, I wold love a awesome hard core shooter

Connor

2007-09-03 18:39:36

Diablo was good, Diablo II was nothing short of legendary. Anything remotely that fun as an audio game would be incredible.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2007-09-03 21:47:31

Well Brian, there apparently are several level editers for original Prince, and absolutely lodes of mods and extra level packs people have created for the game, ----- I believe people are even creating new levels for it right now! I've certainly encountered the spinning log in the snes version as well.

For rpgs, I don't think the choice is really exploration vs hack and slash, sinse any rpg must have a pretty heavy exploration element to begin with, as that's what takes up quite a lot of the playing time (especially in games like Zelda), wandering around, finding and using items, finding different npcs to speak to etc.

the choice of format imho for rpgs would be either real time actual hack and slash combat, or switching to a turn based combat whenever you encountered a monster.

Personally, so long as the plot and exploration elements were there, i'd be happy with either format.

I don't know a lot about the diablo games accept that they have randomly generated areas, which sounds cool! I believe they were Pc, and all of my rpg playing friends are deffinately more console inclined in their gaming.

As I've said before though, for a begining audio rpg, I don't really think we could expect anything more than something like the original Zelda or one of the very early turn based games such as final fantasy 1 or 2. Even to do something like final fantasy 4 or Secret of Mana, with huge world areas and quite extensive Xp anditem systems, ----- not to mention several main characters and hundreds of Npcs, would probably take a looooooonge time indeed.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2007-09-04 09:34:24

The Diablo games were indeed PC based, and were classed as "action RPGs" though this is compared to other RPGs on the PC. Most NPC interaction occured in the "town" area, which wasn't necessarily a town since in the first act it was an encampment of besieged Rogues with Rogues being a sisterhood of spiritual warriors in Diablo. Objectives usually involved killing a specific monster, even when you just had to retrieve an item since the monster usually posessed the item. Combat was very involved and required moving to stop yourself from being cornered by the often more numerous monsters and to bring yourself into the best position to attack. Close in fighters would have to move to keep their freedom of movement and often try to deal with the more threatening champion type monsters or Shamans which could resurrect smaller demons first, whereas ranged fighters had to keep back but still where they can get a clean shot.

Perhaps if monsters were grouped they could be moved as a single entity even though they would fight as multiple enemies, just to reduce the clutter of the audio environment. Then something like the FPS games interface for 3D positioning of enemies could be used.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2007-09-04 10:27:58

Hmmm Cx2, that sounds rather like what I've heard about combat in World of warcraft.

For monsters, i was indeed thinking of a 3D interface, something like shades of doom, but with a larger amount of monsters, obviously with a resporn rate every time you reentered the particular room (though obviously this would only count for normal monsters and not bosses).

I also rather liked the way that in mana, even though the fighting was very heavily action style, spells and status effects (either yours or the enemies), would be unavoidable, ------ covering the hole area, accept by having resistance against the particular spell (mana was very heavy on the elements system), or by using protection items.

Did diablow have acts and formal quests? How did this work? for a structure I was personally considdering something more along the lines of either the classic squaresoft way or Zelda.

In all the old rpg games like Final fantasy, chrono trigger, secret of Mana etc, you'd start off in one fairly large area, with several towns, wilderness areas containing a few monsters and items, and a dungeon or two. Usually the plot would have you going through the towns, occasionally going into a dungeon to rescue an artifact or despose of a specific enemy), but all as part of the main plot. there would be various handy items in the wilderness areas, and occasionally someone in the town would ask for somethin specific which could sometimes be gotten from the surrounding area, and sometimes not.

then, (usually after a major plot point), you'd be taken to another similar area with a way of going betwene (a train, a cannon transport or whatever). the main plot would continuing with some dungeoning, but you might (if you were observant and talked to everyone), be able to fulfil some requirements of people in either the 1sdt or 2nd areas, provided you talked to all the npcs and explored fairly extensively.

then, usually three or four such areas in, you'd get some sort of transport device, such as an air ship or flying dragon, and be able to go around the entire world map. Some areas would be full of things that were too hard to deal with, some areas would be plot related (more dungeons usually), but some would just be extra wilderness or towns with more npcs to talk to, and more to explore.

thus there were no formal quests or chapters, you'd just have someone at one point in the game make a throw away comment, someone eelse make another, and have to put two and two together. there would also occasionally be fun things, like a person mentioning a rich cousin in one city, and when you find the cousin you find them to be poor but lying about their wealth so as to look good to their family back home (and perhaps giving them some cash or other items could reward the player).

but now I've rambled on enough so I'd better stop!

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2007-09-04 10:31:45

Each act had 6 primary quests, though there were other areas that would give you a reward if you cleared out all monsters. Each act started at the "town" area and the quests had you moving outward through different areas, with randomly placed "waypoint beacons" acting as placemarkers. Once you had triggered a beacon once you could then use the beacon in town to teleport there, presumably across acts in addition to the other methods of transport. The beacons are always placed in the area of the same name, though the location within the area was random. It was stated that each act in Diablo 2 was as big as the original Diablo, which is very possible given all the crypts and caves you can delve into if you want a break from pushing forward on the main line of quests.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2007-09-04 11:37:04

Hmmm, that structure sounds a trifle rigid to me, though from what you say I would guess that the usual interaction with npcs got swapped for huuuuuuuuuge amounts of exploration and hidden areas (which would definitely make me happy).

Imho one of the main characteristics of an Rpg is the freedom the player gets, even within the framework of one story.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)