@camlorn Obviously you payed attention to our early opening. We've had something like 16 players on with hardly any lag, and we're getting bigger. Pure basic has linked list and tables, I mainly choose to use arrays. The problem camlorn, is that sometimes you don't stop and consider that your programming advice is not the only stuff out their. I may have social ishues, but i'm not the one cramming my opinions down everyone's throtes. I'm just stating my own opinion on the forums, as the guidelines say its ok to do so, and while I respect that you are as well, sometimes you get wayyyyyyyyy to opinionated and yes, judging by your posts, sometimes I do think that you should really stay back and take a look before you give advice. I'm not saying your all bad. You have your qualities. Its when programming comes up, and your all up in flames in arms about how people should use this and that is when people get fustrated with you. Now, I don't agree with the way ethin frazed his posts. But if you really think that i'm an ignerint programmer who doesn't take people's advice, go ahead, keep thinking that. That's not gonna stop me continuing with dmnb. Their's a point where you can come on strong, but your coming on too strong, hents is why people are lashing out at you.

My intention was not to make camlorn leave the forum, nore was it to start a flamewar. I meerly posted something and suddenly it expanded into a grate flamewar, something which I didn't even get aware of until today. @guitarman, I suggest you pick a programming language which suits you the best and which you feel most adept at.

@camlorn My last post on here, before I stop looking at this topic. Where's your proof dmnb's failing, huh? Where's your proof that i'm falling down the drain. About a hundrid or so posts back in the dmnb topic, and in fact, before you even braught up that ishue of 9 players lagging the server, I had completely forgotten about that problem, because its been fixt for over half of 2, mayby 3 months. So if your gonna tell me i'm gonna be a failure, how about I don't know, look back on the topic and see what we've really been up to, because I have the proof right on that topic, with more than a hundrid posts that dmnb is sirtenly not a failure, and to prove it, i'll insure it dephanatly keeps running for this year, and the next, and the next, because I actually know what i'm doing. I know my code, and I know its weakness's and strengths. But of course, logicly speaking, since you left the forum because I didn't even take your advice and responded with a post which was quite comm in my opinion, you won't even bother to listen, nore check, because according to you, i'm the ignerint programmer and the newb who doesn't know the slitest thing about what he's doing, so keep on thinking what you do about dmnb, and i'll do my own job of actually keeping dmnb going.

Okay, as much as I don't want to touch the Purebasic argument with a 10 foot poll I feel I must just state I do believe there are better choices out there for a new developer. I certainly wouldn't recommend using it for a first time language, but I have no intentions of shoving my opinions down anyone's throat. Just simply state that I have been programming for roughly 16 years and in that time I've found much better choices than Purebasic for software development. However, the important thing to remember is if it works for you personally then who am I or anyone else to disagree?

Now, with the elephant out of the way I'll answer the original question. Yes, it is possible to learn two programming languages at once but not recommended. Particularly for a first time developer.

The important thing to realize about programming is once you know the core concepts of what are functions, variables, loops, operators, etc you can convert those ideas into any programming language you wish. So you need to know the terminology and the logic first before you can start learning languages. Once you know that then you can pick up and learn as many languages as you wish. However, rather than learning two or more at a time I recommend starting with one for the first time to [practice core programming concepts and languages rather than getting confused over language syntax or specifics which aren't as important as the core concepts you need to know Once you have mastered one language you can move onto another one rather quickly.

Steve, that is a fairly common mistake made by new programmers. The problem is they are often so eager and excited to be writing programs that they don't stop long enough to learn the essentials such as terminology, core programming skills, and how to think like a programmer. All they can see at that moment is the end goal of creating this new game or whatever it happens to be and give up in absolute frustration when things don't work out as intended. As much as I hate to admit it I've done it and so have a lot of others, and it is difficult to pass on that experience to new programmers because they are often just too young and eager to listen to more seasoned programmers about what they should focus on at first.

This is why I like python so much. The concepts in python are very very very well named, there is one way to do things and when you read people's code, you know what you will see.
It is also very logical.
For a variable you do:
f = 25
to add to f you do
a = f + 10
to make a function you do:
def function_name(thing_to_pass):
    print(thing_to_pass)
Then to call it do:
function_name(a)
To define a list it is:
my_list = []
to add an item to a list it is
my_list.append(a)
and to access an item in the list you just say the cardinal number:
z = my_list[0]
Now z and a are the same!
It is beautiful and there is no need for return statements, typing or (when you get into classes), pointers.
There are also more libraries in python than I know what to do with.
If ever I need a new library and there is the library I want in C or C++, I can write a wrapper for it.

As for indenting:
NVDA and Jaws both have support for tab characters.
So put \t (the symbol for tab) in your screen reader and do a replace all function in people's code then you hear something like:
def my_func():
tab print("hello world")

There is no forgetting braces, it is a matter of selecting a huge chunk of code and hitting shift+tab to unindent code in EdSharp and frankly, once you get used to it, you only check indentation with code online once or twice in a huge script and that is when they have bad coding practice.
There is something called pep 8 in python so all python code is laid out the same.
You can break it, but every developer tries to follow it as pep 8 results in the cleanest and easiest to read code.

I do admit that I break pep 8 a little, There are rules like:
never use l as a variable or label all global variables in capitals or import everything on its own line, or using tabs instead of spaces,
But for the first 2 it doesn't do any good with a screen reader and for the last 2, having 15 lines of imports is just crazy (although if you have 15 lines of imports you've got other problems). And the tabbing makes python 100000000000000000 times easier to read.
There is a reason why python is the programming language for new programmers.

Dranelement, that is precisely one of the main reasons I wouldn't recommend Purebasic to a newbie or even to a seasoned developer. While the over all cost of Purebasic isn't that much in the scheme of things there are much cheaper alternatives that can do the same thing for free. I just can't see paying money for tools etc when there are free alternatives that are just as good if not better than the one's people are paying for. It isn't that I'm a cheapskate, but it just doesn't seem sensible to pay for something a person can essentially have for free by choosing a different language and tools.

Hi,
Visual Studio has a free version. And if that's not enough, I have a key for it that you can use for the ultimate version. I'm not going to give it out publicly, though.

Steve, I have to agree with Ethin and Ian on this. While there are certainly versions of Visual Studio that cost $1,300 Microsoft also offers free and low cost versions of Visual Studio that is perfectly fine for college students and hobbyist developers who don't want or need the enterprise grade tools. I have used the express and community versions of Visual Studio for years and for the most part they are fine for most practical purposes. I've not found too many instances where I actually would need to fork over hundreds perhaps thousands of dollars to develop an app in C++, C#, or Visual Basic using Microsoft's Visual Studio tools.

God, steve, , post 33 was just like your old ones.

You know what's funny?  Tward said basically the same thing that Camlern originally said, and in basically the same way, but you guys didn't mind that at all, and even agreed, for the most part, since he wasn't Camlern, I guess?  Pretty idiotic reason if you ask me...

That's pathetic, and you know what else is pathetic, the fact that the only reason people are starting to use PB for audio games, is that one relatively unsuccessful coder started using it because someone bought it for him, then, a bunch of other coders who couldn't figure out BGT started using it because this one coder treated it like it was the language of all languages, that could do know wrong and was 10 times better than all the others, simply because he got fet up trying to use BGT. So all of the other programmers, since they knew that this guy was willing to get them started with this language that has no purpose being used for audio games, nor any kind of server, and is in fact supposed to be used for relatively basic machines like workstations, factory testing units, and thin clients, and isn't even much better at doing that than other languages according to most professionals, most of which are free,, more up to date, and have a wider range of features, decided to use this instead of C++, BGT, or Python.

It would have been completely fine if this one coder was the only one, but everyone that uses it now defends it to the last, specifically because all of the people that actually no better tell them it's not a good idea, most of these new coders don't really know what they are doing anyway, and would have way better progress with the type of games that they are trying to make, E.G. simple ones, that would be much easier in BGT, which is a language that's already set up to do basic audio games, and the 1 or 2 relatively good ones will likely soon find that the other people were right all along, or just lie to them selves to keep from losing a non existent battle that they have manufactured just to be contrary, and suffer pointlessly for it.

It will all blow over in time, since it's just a fad, but it's still pretty moronic and has pissed off allot of people that didn't deserve this stubborn stupidity being herled at them from all sides by teenaged wanabes.

Time for Ethin to inevitably bitch about the length of my post...  Sigh.