2014-12-09 20:45:15

I agree with that Afrim, you notice the difference first with NVDA aposed to jaws, then with extentions for limiting ram usage coupled with temp file cleaning, then with a computer with better specs.


Yeah I also Keep Jaws around too, as a secondary backup, and I always smile when I imagine what FS would think of that. ROFL


I mostly keep it for specific scripts, and for trying on things NVDA can't figure out, but also if something gets messed up with either one, like a corrupted config file with NVDA or removed authorizationf or JFW.


And I do actually notice better performance with some programs on 64 bit windows, but I think that has more to do with surpassed limitations allowing coders to optomise better  rather than just, it's 64 bit so it's better.


Good examples of this are The Cube, literally 25 times less physical and vertual average RAM usage on 7 compared to XP, and Avast, able to run on a 1.0ghz dual core AMD E1 Netbook with 2GB of RAM from Acer, because it's running 8.1, on XP you'd just fucking die, same with 7 for most average set ups for even some advanced scanning, and that computer doesn't even have an SSD, nore a 7200RPM drive.

2014-12-09 23:30:52

Yeah, I remember when Electrolysis was first being discussed. I really hope they push this through.

I used JFW mostly for the usual screen-scraping suspects, and NVDA for the Windows OS. I haven't been using NVDA in a good while, though, so I have yet to see how it performs with everyday tasks rather than just the odd Windows app or Visual Studio, both which have been my focus recently. Right now, it's a very excellent screen reader for updating Windows and getting JAWS installed, but I'll see (as I migrate back to Windows) how far I can get with it. Office apps and "Flat" review are still JAWS' strengths as far as I can tell, but since I've had a taste of proper accessibility, I'll be interested to see how I get on with NVDA. No doubt I'll need JAWS in order to hack the few apps which need it, like QT apps, and games that do any kind of GDI directly, or some Delphi stuff like CheatEngine where there is a lot of heavy custom text widgetry. And I've heard that console windows are better now, so I'll check that out, as that's rather important. Skype is still a bitch, of course, and I'm migrating Pegasus to Thunderbird, so that'll work with NVDA. I do like Eloquence, it's true. And I've found the IE+JAWS combo to be more responsive than with Firefox; I guess that's the flip side. But I'll give Firefox a proper go and customise it to use less cycles. So we'll see how it goes.

Just myself, as usual.

2014-12-10 00:01:15

It is not true that there is an eloquence add-on for NVDA, and it is not true that if you go looking you will find it.  It is unfortunate that I cannot tell you specifically where you can't get it from.
The NVDA people also basically duplicated Eloquence to the point that I thought the non-eloquence sample on their survey a while back was a control, but apparently there was a huge backlash on the mailing list because people are apparently fixating on the name.  As a result, they're now not able to justify developing it, so it's sitting there 75% done.  Figuring out what is needed to finish this is on my to-do list as it would also work on Linux and, if someone wrote a voice for it, on Mac--they want to get it upstream into Espeak proper.
QT is a problem in a lot of places and for a lot of people.  I don't believe that Jaws works well with it either, but have not had occasion to actually attempt such.  Someone or other at NVDA was talking about a patch that will make QT5 (which is apparently doing something technical and nonstandard with COM that breaks hard in an NVDA dependency) work right, but this patch has to go somewhere that is not NVDA and I'm not sure as to the status or plans for it.  NVDA works fine for everything I do for college, including Word/excel, and nothing is working right enough with VS that I'd actually suggest using VS for anything.  Also, Google is apparently suggesting that NVDA works best with their stuff and it turns out that sheets actually seems to work nicely.  Docs is a little bit...interesting...but unfortunately in a way that isn't ever going to quite work on windows without them doing what they're doing already.
32 vs. 64 bit is not something that may properly be evaluated with an OS upgrade: the OS upgrade probably has more to do with it.  The Qube is known for randomly using Ram and also fails as a reliable benchmark.  Unless you're doing mathematical or scientific computing and writing in C/C++, the gain from 64-bit code is minimal.  It is much more likely that the benefits came from RAM read/write speed improvements, faster HDD (not necessarily SSD), better CPU caching algorithms, core OS improvements and, possibly, specific OS optimizations that only work on 64-bit machines.  We live in a world where you can have two processors that look identical in terms of GHZ but still have one of them outperform by a lot because it's a few years newer.  It is not possible to run 32-bit code on a 64-bit machine and actually get a benefit: your 32-bit code simply gets virtualized, basically.  You need binaries that are specifically recompiled.  As for web browsers?  Yeah, 64-bit could help, but it would actually require that they be doing things in such a way that it would help.  Multiple processors would probably help more, or at least a greater focus on threads (but processes provide robustness in case one of them crashes).  If they wanted, they could possibly restructure their code so that the compiler is able to optimize for 64-bit machines, provide 2 binaries, and all that-but I'm not convinced that they'd get much out of the effort.  Not to mention all the obscure 64-bit portability bugs.  Could I be convinced?  Yes, but only by something objective and technical that spells out what I'm missing.
I'm also not trying to "answer" the Firefox question.  But I've heard a lot of anecdotes about Firefox and Jaws that are similar to mine and at least one person I know says that Firefox is faster with NVDA and IE is faster with Jaws.  Given all the crap Jaws does and the fact that I can make a case for them having actually hurt accessibility as a whole pretty badly (even though they were helping it originally), I've got no reason at all to believe that Jaws isn't to blame for my troubles.  My backup screen reader is a portable copy of NVDA, a setup which is almost impossible to break.

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2014-12-10 00:45:01

Nods, well, that's probably true, though this was a shitty computer, 2.13ghz dual core Intel I3 first gen with 2M l3 Cash and integrated Intel graphics HD1000, Toshiba JPTR9 motherboard, Samsung 4gb 800mhz dual channel ram 2dim, and a Hatachi Travelstar K7 320GB HDD at 5400RPM on SataII, it was originally a 7 Pro downgrade, but I upgraded it back, silly school.
I doubt it has much in the name of optomisation aside from the half assed slap it on and go 64bit compatibility, and yet these readings were taken from that machine before and after the upgrade, the other machine was just a Netbook of my dad's.


Your probably right though, from your posts on other topics, it's a safe bet, you know lots of things about lots of other things... I don't. ROFL.

2014-12-10 01:55:22

on windows, I really like firefox for windows. it is probably one of the best browsers in my oppinion for browsers under windows

2014-12-10 02:08:47

Hello. This is an excellent topic. I will start with IE and Firefox. Please note I only used Firefox on Windows so can't speak to its accessibility on other platforms. I found it to be pretty accessible for the most part, although I couldn't get some of the functions to work. These include the plugins such as Firevox. So that part I think was inaccessible for me. Additionally, it seemed I had to restart this browser when done listening to an audio file. In addition, I don't think Firefox works with System Access. Internet Exploder was also pretty good in terms of accessibility, although I haven't used it for awhile so I don't know about the versions above 9.x . IE and Ff crashed on me almost all the time though. Now I will talk about Chrome and Safari. I'll start with Chrome. When I tried to use it with System Access in Windows, I couldn't get anything to work. However, it works pretty much flawlessly with both Chromevox and VoiceOver. Chromevox seemed to crash a lot though, so I removed it from my Mac. Now to Safari, which I use in addition to Chrome. Both work extremely well with VoiceOver. I really like the extra features that Apple implemented in Safari, such as the Reader. For those of you who have never tried this feature, it lets you view only the text on a web page. It doesn't work on all websites, but it's a great feature. I'm up to version 7.1 of Safari, and most of the time the command to go back a page doesn't work with VoiceOver. However, there is a work-around for this which I've found to be very good. That is, refreshing the page with Command-R if the "back" command won't work.

2014-12-12 17:34:59 (edited by afrim 2014-12-12 17:40:43)

When I bought my first computer about 5 years ago I remember it was a 64 bit windows 7, it worked pritty good, but I couldn't find jaws 64 bit, then I changed to a windows 7 ultimate - 32 bit. It I find the 32 bit edition of windows much slow though I can't find where does it come from as I'm not an expert on computer, but I can say that 64 bit edition works faster and better. I also use an android device running android 4.4.2. I like a very good feature there in my samsung device, "The task manager". The task manager provides four tabs, and the fourth one is called "Ram tab". In this tab you can close all active application and therefore the phone will run faster; something that doesn't exist on windows. I would love so much to have such an application which closes unneeded apps running in background. It can free up to 200 MB of ram. for example, if my ram is 850 MB of 1.5 GB, it can reduce it to 650 MB. and something that  I consider very important, the accessibility is not so good on windows. I'm sorry that android passes it away. although talkback can't be compared to jaws, there are other features which may exist on windows, but we cannot take advantage of because the screen reader might not be compatible with a certain program, or that program crashes when using a certain screen reader, something that doesn't occur on android. I am disappointed from the accessibility at least in windows 7 edition.

2014-12-12 21:10:37

Yeah, I've experienced the silly Back-needs-Refresh nonsense on Safari too.

Interesting you're saying Chrome works well in VoiceOver; perhaps it's progressed in leaps and bounds since I last tried it. But when I did, half the controls weren't even labelled. I wonder if the increased popularity has something to do with this? I shall try it again, for sure (without ChromeVox).

I like Reader. I also like the links sidebar; if you configure your social networks, links will appear there from your social stream. Very awesome. Safari was always a very pleasant and well-balanced browser in that respect.

Just myself, as usual.

2014-12-14 04:46:52

I haven't looked at this topic in a week or so, so just catching up now.

I've been using NVDA as my primary screen reader for over a year now, maybe even two, and in all that time, I haven't seen a single Firefox crash.

Then again... I don't install Flash/Java or let scripts run globally, so... Maybe that has something to do with it. In part, at least.
I've been making more customizations to my setup, removing unnecessary toolbar buttons, hiding unused menu options with a userChrome.css file, etc. At first, I thought the customization page was inaccessible, but it works surprisingly well with NVDA's object navigation. I haven't used object navigation much, so I didn't think to try it at first.
If anyone would like help configuring or using Firefox, let me know. I'm happy to help.

2014-12-14 09:46:58

In fact, if it's possible, please help me onto how to disable forever some add-ons. I click: "never activate", but it doesn't take effect.

Thanks.

2014-12-14 19:31:45 (edited by defender 2014-12-14 19:52:03)

try the applications menu bar on the extention in question in the addons page, if disable doesn't show up there, tab to the button next to the list box with the extentions and try that one, it may bring up a small menu for you to pick from, or, it may have a few different buttons.


Also, afrim, use control shift escape in windows 7, hit control tab till you get to process's, use the alt v keystroke, press the letter s, and select the columns you want displayed with the check box's.
Next time you hit control shift escape, you'll have all that info, and I suggest processor usage, physical ram, and virtual ram as columns, you can also end process's from there by choosing a process, using the delete key, or alt E for end process on it, and tabbing to the end process button and activating it.
As well, you can use the applications menu bar on a process to get a list of more things you can do, such as seeing where that process's file is located in windows, or checking the file's properties.


Another good resource is MSConfig which you can type into the run dialog box that you can bring up with windows r, where you can use the services and startup tabs with there checkbox's to help you as well, just press apply and okay to save your changes and restart the computer when you want.


A good site to look up what all these files are for, both in task manager and msconfig, is bleepingcomputer.com


You also have services.msc which you can type into run too, which has a great deal of configuration through the menu bar, including view and options, and for single services with the applications menu.
How ever, you need to be very careful here, I suggest backing up your registry first, and it's possible to screw stuff up bad enough to have to boot into safe mode, so also make a system restore point.
On the other hand, this is the single best way to reduce ram and processor usage aside from killing the very obvious process's...  And even though windows 7 probably has the most services to wade through of all the windows versions, there are good guides that you can follow that shouldn't break anything, though you should still use common sense especially on the ones that the guides don't mention, and always try to use manual more than disable.
The best site I've found so far for this is called black viper, and should have a guide for your version of windows, just be aware that it can be easy to break network connectivity, because there are allot of process's that rely on each other, with some having to start up automatically while others don't, but even doing this with out ever touching network stuff helps a bunch.


Otherwise you've still got temp file cleaning, registry conflict and old extention cleaning, defragging, unneeded program data wiping, scheduled malware scanning and realtime protection.
I suggest CCleaner for cleaning stuff out and basic registry fixing, and Defraggler for defragging, both from piriform.com though I've heard ozlogics is good too, also I'd use revo uninstaler and use it on safe mode instead of regular uninstallers, and advanced mode if that doesn't work, as well as going into C:\documents and settings\your user name\application data, and checking all the folders in there to see if the name of that program you had comes up, if so, delete that folder and empty the recycle bin afterwards.
Anti virus is more a personal choice, but it also depends on the computer and what your willing to put up with for accessibility, or lack there of, but I can suggest combofix, spybot search and destroy, clamwin, and Macafee stinger for quick but powerful checking, Microsoft Security Essentials and AVG free for light realtime and scheduled cleaning, and avast, AVG Business, and malware bytes if they fixed their stupid interface by now for heavier everything.


All those things, when done right, should help allot, and as to accessibility? going to control panel, appearance and personalization, change the theme, and picking windows classic in the grid that comes up, then saving, should help with that.

2014-12-14 19:45:32 (edited by Jason SW 2016-12-01 20:24:25)

Hi,

Go to the tools menu, and then go to add-ons. In the add-on manager, browse mode should be off. You will have to tab three times to get to the list of add-on types, such as extensions, plugins, themes, etc. For extensions, select "extensions" from the list, tab once more, and find the extension you want to remove. Then, tab to the remove button. With some extensions, you may have to restart Firefox for the extension to be completely removed.
Plugins are a little more complicated. From the firefox UI, it's not possible to remove plugins, but you can disable them (it sounds like you already know how to do that.)
Otherwise, if you can find  out where the plugin is installed, you might be able to delete its files, or prevent Firefox from scanning for it.
If it's in your AppData folder, you should be able to find and delete the plugin files. For plugins that are defined in the registry, though, it gets a bit more difficult. There is an about:config setting called plugin.scan.plid.all that determines whether or not Firefox should scan the registry for plugins. Setting this to false may help you, but it may also disable other plugins that you may want to keep.
(I don't know if you know how to use about:config, so I'll just briefly go over it.)
In the address bar, type "about:config", then press enter. A warning message will pop up, letting you know that it can be dangerous to change settings in this screen. The "I'll be careful, I promiss!" button will dismiss this message. You can also check the checkbox so that this message won't show up again.
Again, browse mode should be off in this screen. You will find a search box, followed by a long list of entries.
Typing in the search box will immediately filter the list, so there is no need to submit your search or anything. Clearing the box will show all entries again.
You can create new entries, modify existing entries, or reset them. Just select the entry you want to change, and access the context menu. In this menu there is also a "new" menu to create a new string, boolean or integer.

HTH

2014-12-14 20:00:46 (edited by Jason SW 2014-12-15 19:38:11)

In case anyone is interested, here are the changes I've made to my about:config settings.

browser.cache.disk.capacity: 51200 (disk cache size)
browser.cache.disk.smart_size.enabled: false
browser.cache.frecency_experiment: 3
browser.cache.memory.capacity: 25600 (Memory cache size)
browser.history_expire_days.mirror: 1
browser.newtab.url: about:blank (URL of new tab page)
browser.privatebrowsing.autostart: true (Permanent private browsing mode)
browser.search.suggest.enabled: false (Search suggestions)
browser.sessionstore.restore_on_demand: false
browser.sessionstore.resume_from_crash: false
browser.tabs.animate: false
browser.tabs.autoHide: true
browser.tabs.closeWindowWithLastTab: false (Stops Firefox from closing if you close the last tab.)
browser.tabs.drawInTitlebar: false
browser.tabs.loadInBackground: false
browser.tabs.warnOnClose: false
browser.urlbar.autocomplete.enabled: false
browser.urlbar.autoFill: false
browser.urlbar.trimURLs: false
dom.event.contextmenu.enabled: false (Controls whether or not scripts can disable the right click/context menu)
gfx.direct2d.disabled: true
layers.acceleration.disabled: true
network.cookie.cookieBehavior: 2
network.cookie.lifetimePolicy: 2
network.cookie.maxNumber: 50
network.http.max-connections: 200
network.http.max-connections-per-server: 20
network.http.max-persistent-connections-per-proxy: 8
network.http.max-persistent-connections-per-server: 4
pdfjs.disabled: true (Builtin PDF viewer)
permissions.default.image: 2 (Controls when to load images. 2=Don't load)
plugin.scan.Acrobat: 200.0
plugin.scan.plid.all: false (Whether or not to scan the registry for Firefox plugins)
plugin.scan.Quicktime: 200.0
plugin.scan.WindowsMediaPlayer: 200.0
plugin.state.flash: 0
plugin.state.java: 0
plugins.hideMissingPluginsNotification: true
plugins.notifyMissingFlash: false
privacy.clearOnShutdown.offlineApps: true
privacy.donottrackheader.enabled: true
privacy.sanitize.sanitizeOnShutdown: true
security.enable_java: false
security.xpconnect.plugin.unrestricted: false
webgl.disabled: true

And here is my userChrome.css file. I've put in some comments to explain what it will do.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1472111/userChrome.css
To install, go to your profile folder. This is usually located in %AppData%\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\<random characters>.<profilename>
If the folder "chrome" doesn't exist, create it, then paste the userChrome.css file into this folder. Restart Firefox.

2014-12-16 18:19:19

I really thank you in advance for all your suggestions, will check them out soon.

2014-12-16 21:34:03

Well, I thought I'd jump in late.
In ie, I have webvisum installed, this does capcha stuff though it also helps with some access features.
I have one  for playing system sounds and a few others.
The only time I use firefox though is for things that crash with ie11 which are only a few websites.
Security wise I do realise ie is not the best but for what I do, it works.
Most of my peers use chrome but ie comes with windows and  while I do use firefox from time to time its not a full brouser I use, some stuff it does better than ie and some stuff that ie crashes with it works well with to.
I have an i5 duel core 32 bit system that could go 64 bit if it wanted with 4gb ram and win7.
I am not sure about ram usage but yeah.

2014-12-17 08:54:03

Thanks for those about:config settings, I'll have a look. I can't say I've ever messed around in there, but some of the settings you mentioned seem reasonable

The glass is neither half empty nor half full. It's just holding half the amount it can potentially hold.