2014-10-05 12:43:02

I'm interested in a home theatre set up for my living room, fairly basic with HDMI connection to a TV or monitor with built in speakers. I was wondering if anyone had any experience or knowledge of such things? I've considered the Apple TV but it has no built in storage of its own, I want something where I don't need to turn on my desktop to use it and ideally which could stream to my iPhone. The Mac Mini could indeed do this but it's expensive and only comes with a 500GB hard drive as standard, I don't want external drives sitting around in my living room for various reasons.

One option is throwing a Raspberry Pi into a mini ITX case, this wouldn't be particularly expensive and would be very low power. On the downside it may be tricky to set up with some kind of screen reader, I gather DVD playback has issues in that you don't get the menus so choosing an episode to watch for a TV series on DVD may be difficult, I'd have to look around for a way to control playback from my iPhone with Voice Over and finding a way to power the drives, even if only a hard drive, would take some fiddling around with wires.

The other possibility is throwing together a low end Windows box, since I'd be using a mini ITX case anyway in order to keep everything tidy. This would be more expensive of course and would take more power even if I try to keep consumption to a minimum, but it would be more familiar since I've built Windows systems before. I wouldn't need to find a way to break the protection on the large amount of video content I have from iTunes though I may do so later anyway if I get around to it and I could use the home sharing to stream to my phone while also using the remote app to control iTunes playback. It could also easily rip DVDs should I find an accessible program for doing so and has no problems with DVD menus, ultimately it would be the most flexible option of them all but at a financial price both in terms of parts and energy consumption.

Opinions? Advice? Want to tell me I'm stupid and I'm barking up the wrong tree?

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2014-10-05 13:47:50

Whichever way you go, your best bet is installing XBMC on it. At which point you might as well just do it with a pi and an external drive. There are premade XBMC distros for the Pi like open elec. After that all you would need to do is install the XBMC TTS extension, there's a whole thread about it on this forum. There are XBMC remote apps for iOS so controlling it from your phone won't be a problem either.

<Insert passage from "The Book Of Chrome" here>

2014-10-05 15:15:54

I hadn't realised there was a TTS extension, thanks.

The biggest issue with the Pi approach is I have very limited access to competent sighted assistance. Because I want something relatively tidy that means taking an ITX case with a standard ATX PSU and rigging it to the Pi, the issue being both to take a power feed to the Pi from the PSU and connecting the appropriate wires to let the Pi turn on and off the PSU.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2014-10-06 16:22:38

I don't advise rejecting external storage. Whichever way you go, you will end up connecting much disk, so you should plan for space and power, whether over USB/Firewire/Thunderbolt. Otherwise, as you said, you will end up building a monster, which while it is entirely feasible, leaves you with a hulking computer not very suited to shoving under the telly. At least a RAID stack will look nice supported by your TV stand.

The usual way to do this is to have a NAS, but  there are problems for us there, so probably USB. Then you use any OS (I use OS X on a Mini) to run your streaming server of choice, which could be XVNC, iTunes, daapd, or others. Apple TV is nice if much of your stuff is in Apple's cloud, or you have a sub to a streaming-only service, but otherwise makes no more sense than just controlling iTunes with the Remote app or the Apple Remote. And of course nothing says you can't run multiple servers at the same time, depending on which OS you are on.

Just myself, as usual.

2014-10-06 19:10:26

I don't think a mini ITX system would be any more hulking than some modern games consoles, so long as they have at least one 3.5 inch slot I could stick in a fairly big hard drive. More of a concern for me is power consumption, noise and cost.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2014-10-06 21:00:14

Well, if you can manage with a single disk or maybe a couple depending on your form factor, but I would prefer to separate my "Disposal" collection from my proper data archive and OS installations, both because data loss is recoverable when you have the DVDs, and because for all practical purposes you won't be able to back up a constantly-evolving media library that you're filling up with multi-ten-gigabyte rips. So I prefer, when building a single basket, to make it as sturdy as possible. This is much easier for me since my desktop is already always-on and accessible over the network to an Apple TV, the Mac Mini is simply the file server with connected storage using software RAID1.

If you just need a MiniPC build, you could always try out PC Specialist; they make nice, chunky boxes that give out smoke in normal operation. They have a good range from fanless Atom to gaming I7s with discrete graphics, and you should be able to find the right balance of performance and power, although as we've discussed it before, I'm personally convinced that the Mac Mini hits the sweet spot for me, even if they are bloody expensive for the upgrades.

As usual, opinions are my own, I may be wrong, etc. In fact, I'm thinking about my strategy again in light of recent cloud paranoia, and the likelihood of my moving my mail server back in-house. So YMMV.

Just myself, as usual.

2014-10-06 21:11:56

To be honest the recent cloud paranoia is down to certain celebrities having crappy passwords, while at the same time taking nude pics of themselves and keeping them on their phone. Not wise to say the least, you don't want anything like that going near a connected system especially if you're a celebrity.

Ehh, you can get up to 3TB quite easily in a single 3.5 inch drive. I have an older MacBook pro which I like but the mac mini is way out of my price range anyhow. In fact the Fractal Design Node 304 is a mini ITX system with drive space for up to 6 3.5 inch drives, with trays that can be configured for either 2.5 or 3.5 in pairs.

That being said my media collection is currently stored in my desktop on a 1TB Caviar Green and I still have space to spare, though that may change if I find an accessible way to convert DVDs to files. Most of that is video content from iTunes and I've tried a couple pieces of software to remove DRM but sadly they weren't accessible.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2014-10-07 00:54:32 (edited by Sebby 2014-10-07 01:53:04)

Yep, that case looks nice, but it's way too tall (37.5 cm) to go under your telly. On the other hand, at least right now, I have about 300 GB spare on my smallest disk (the MacBook Pro's hot-swapped 1TB SSD) including the media collection, so I can afford to use a simple USB enclosure with 6 TB in it and still use RAID1. And that makes an absolutely great solution for me, because I access everything using gigabit Ethernet. This will all change when I've finished ripping my DVDs though, and I'll have to scale up to one of those dedicated RAID controllers.


As to the yoof/celebs taking pictures of themselves, well yes, it's more a general distrust in cloud providers generally. Apple, for they're currently hosting my email, have shown themselves to be remarkably resistant, but I'd still benefit from having it at home all the same. It's also true that as an email sysadmin I'd like some of my flexibility back.

Edit: now I think about it, it goes much deeper. What I want is to live in a dream world where I never do backups, never worry about fire or flood, and where all my data--not just media, but everything--lives in a storage black box. So far, that seems illusive, and/or hazardous. RAID1 is great for uptime, but nothing more, so we still have old-world problems to deal with. That is unless you switch to ZFS; then you can forget using a Raspberry Pi, as you'll be on demand for much more memory and CPU to maintain consistent performance.

Just myself, as usual.

2014-10-16 19:54:20

@cx2, I'd recommend an SSD if your wondering about noise. SSDs don't make any noise at all because they don't need it. I'd recommend the largest SSD available, with 16 GB RAM and an Intel (R) M VPro processor, which is hte newest. If your in for the need for speed, I'd recommend the Intel Cor I5 or I7. Both of those processors have very high quality GPUs, and you can have two CPUs, both having four cores, which is plenty for what your trying to do.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2014-10-16 21:37:06

Ugh, no way I could afford a 1TB SSD. I'm not concerned about hard drive noise so much as fan noise. I also don't particularly mind about performance or graphics so long as it can run Windows with Jaws and iTunes comfortably during video playback. Max ram is a given of course though.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2014-10-17 01:25:51

Well, I dunno. SSD for the main OS disk, RAID for bulk storage. You could do that.

As for me, I am eyeing up one of Lacie's Thunderbolt dumb enclosures, with 5 4 TB disks inside. The enclosure costs way more than it's worth for simple enclosure, but I can't argue with either capacity or speed (750 MB/s with RAID 0, less for more redundancy). smile

Just myself, as usual.

2014-10-17 18:10:00

I built my steam/XBMC box in a corsair 250D. It's a squat little case at 29 cm high, It's damn near silent too with the exception of the graphics card which can make some noise every now and then. You will get 4 drives in this case, so it's outdone by the fractal node 304 but then again it's a bit shorter. Another case and one that I'm looking at for my next gaming build is the silverstone rvz 01. You can have this case sit horizontal like a console so it's ideal for under the tv use. You do need to pick up a SFX power supply to use in the thing though. and it only takes 3 2.5 inch drives.

Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.

2014-10-18 06:42:52

Thanks, I'll take a look. The biggest issue I've found with the small cases is when they do only take 2.5 inch drives, I'd much rather have a nice high capacity 3.5 inch drive like a WD caviar green or something for the media storage.

Incidentally how accessible is Steam OS? I've been wondering if someone would start a project to give its menus TTS for a while now.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2014-10-18 15:29:32

the 250D can get 2 3.5 drives in it. So you could have a small SSD for windows, and something like 2 3TB 3.5 inch WD reds in raid for your storage. As for steam OS, I don't know. I never bothered with it. I figured it would be as about accessible as my xbox was so skipped right over it.

Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.

2014-10-18 15:50:12

Ah, I just wondered when you said it was a steam/XBMC box. Again thanks for the info.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2014-10-27 01:49:18 (edited by Sebby 2014-10-27 01:59:22)

I know this isn't entirely relevant if you've decided against the Mini, CX2, but I'll just mention it here regardless for whosoever benefits as it's been driving me bloody mad for the past week. What follows is a whinge …

Apple released a 2014 Mac Mini along with some other recent announces (iPad Air 2, iPad Mini 3, iMac 5K, Yosemite) with Iris graphics, Haswell CPUs, dual Thunderbolt 2, PCIE Flash up to 1TB and 802.11AC Wi-Fi. They've also moved the Mini to the glue-everything-in-and-solder-it-tight model of non-upgradability; now the disks are all you can upgrade, at a pinch. But they did not release quad-core high-end BTO configurations, nor a "Server" edition.

This is relevant because while the Mac Mini has never been a better buy for the average consumer, perhaps even an excellent media server, it sucks donkey balls for server workloads, virtualisation, or transcoding. I'm fairly sure the media centre applications won't make a blind bit of difference in practice, even with HD4000 graphics you'll do fine, but the fact of the matter is that the top end Mac Mini will give you less multicore CPU performance than is possible with the 2012 Mac Mini for the same cost, and you won't be able to avoid Apple's penny-pinching upgrade pricing. So, if you were thinking about a Mac Mini, you might like to secure for yourself a 2012 model for use as your all-purpose server while you still can to get decent performance for the price you're paying.

I like the Mac Mini. Well, I liked it. Now I have to deprecate it. It's too bad. I nearly got the new model--I was excited, because it was time. But I'm hanging onto my trusty 2012 model, and my sister-in-law can buy the new model at top specs and learn to love it.

There's speculation about the reasons. Some say it's the socket requirement for the Haswell chips in use; Apple would have to use two separate board designs to accommodate both dual- and quad-core editions. And Intel has been flailing around just trying to stay relevant, and missing deadlines. But really it's all just bollocks. I've no doubt Apple would like it very much if you bought an iMac or a Mac Pro instead, because the Mac Mini quad-core, which I think is really awesome, had low-end pro potential at extremely low power consumption. Lots of useful applications benefit from multicore performance, and while more single-core speed is great, we've realistically reached the point where common workloads are already acceptably fast and going a bit faster doesn't help much. But when you effectively halve the available processor speed, some applications aren't even realistically possible--like virtualisation, transcoding, or a 100-person workgroup server.

So in summary, if you want a powerful Mac Mini that's worth the money, you might like to snap up a refurb 2012 quad-core while you still can, if you can.

Just myself, as usual.

2014-10-27 11:25:29

I had heard the Mac Mini dropped in price so I had been reevaluating, thanks for that info. It sounds like they're really gutting the mini line.

Combined with the iPad mini 3 having virtually no spec increase except for the touch ID this doesn't bode well. Some people blame that on the iPhone 6's runaway success leaving them short on A8 chips but I'm not sure it would be that easy to change the manufacture of the iPad mini to A7 chips on such short notice. Worst bit is the average buyer just won't know, they'll see the 3 and assume it's flat out better.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2014-10-28 00:30:07

Yeah, you've got to admire the slight of hand there, where they announce the Mini after talking about the actually upgraded (though not by much, TBH) iPad Air.

I really, really hope Apple hasn't turned to counting beans before considering the user experience, rather than--as under Jobs--afterwards. Though the latter had problems, it didn't result in this nonsense.

Just myself, as usual.

2014-10-29 10:22:53

Well I can understand not leaving space to access components, Apple are known for small form factors after all, but glueing things in just seems a stretch to me. Maybe it's cheaper to manufacture or something but it just doesn't feel good.

I have a 2009 MacBook pro I'm considering giving up and a mac mini could be a replacement mac and HTPC system all in one, unfortunately even with the price drop the specs just seem poor and any kind of upgrade is seriously overpriced. £80 to go from 4GB to 8 is just overkill, even for high quality components, and don't get me started on those fusion drives. I read a review that said you generally get better performance from a 7200RPM drive than from a fusion drive which is based on 5400 RPM, and for the £200 Apple charge you could get a decent sized SSD.

I'm confused about the lack of the mac mini server too, it was a great option for a home or small office server or just as a testbed.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2014-10-30 01:19:55

Indeed.

Turns out my Mac Mini 2012 no longer has Apple support behind it, so it's time to put in a couple of decent SSDs and run them in RAID0, then maybe swap out OS X for Linux. It's all fine by me.

I wouldn't mind paying Apple's upgrading pricing if they actually maintained the specs. I mean it'd be annoying, but it wouldn't make any less awesome of a server. Sadly I don't think Apple really care about my kind of person any more; the Mini is now just a low-end Mac intended to get you into the cult. Tragic.

Just myself, as usual.

2014-10-30 18:45:22

Looked up a teardown of the 2014 mac mini out of curiosity. No glue but the memory really is soldered straight in, presumably it's cheaper to manufacture than soldering in a DDR slot then inserting the module, and there's a door in the bottom inside the normal panel of the case using security screws. Oh and the motherboard doesn't even have a second SATA connector which means a server version would be impossible, though there is a spare PCI-E slot used for the SSD part of a fusion drive.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2014-10-31 08:50:11

Ah. Well it makes no odds either way; you can't replace the memory without destroying the machine. I'm just not going there. Shame.

Just myself, as usual.

2014-10-31 09:49:57

I heard it said Apple are trying to get people to treat the mini as a "commodity" item, when it breaks or needs updating just throw it out and get a new one. This is frankly wasteful and goes against everything us tech nerds have ever believed. Question is, will anyone buy the new mini or will it die a slow death? I really don't see Apple reversing their decisions regarding the mini since this would mean admitting they were wrong, and like you say people'll just buy an iMac or MacBook air/pro instead... or at least Apple believes so.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2014-11-01 00:59:47

I suppose this really depends on what Apple thinks the future of Macs and OS X really are. In spite of the Mac Pro, it's not clear to me that Apple is at all inconvenienced by hardwiring components. Indeed, a high-end iMac is a professional workstation, too; Macs are clearly just good for doing your general computing work, and a "Pro" is someone who knows how to use FinalCut or Logic. And in that light, it all makes perfect sense. The Mac Mini is no longer a server; now only the Mac Pro qualifies, in any kind of conventional sense. OS X Server has long been trivialised to the point that it makes Windows Server seem positively useful; all the bundled software means nothing if you can hardly manage it in the Mac way, or have to run logged-in sessions over graphical desktops or ssh (the latter with much less flexibility than one would normally expect from a command line). It's a wonder there isn't an "iServe", which would be a box with server functions built into it, like the very excellent Time Capsule, controlled using an iOS app …

I'm now moving this Mac Mini to Linux. I don't anticipate it dying for a while yet, but I'll cross that bridge when I reach it. Should be fun; a new home gateway and mail server and NAS, shaped exactly like a Mac Mini. smile

Just myself, as usual.

2014-11-01 07:10:16

Apple has always had a strong market share in media work from what I understand so that makes sense, unfortunately I wouldn't call someone who knows how to use final cut a pro just on that basis. I guess they really don't cater for power users any more, I just hope this doesn't cause a drop in the number or quality of developers after they see the specs on the machines they would need for coding/testing.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.