2014-09-20 01:33:36

Hello,
I assume most of you know what chiptune is. If you've never heard that word, you've surely heard of 8-bit music. It's basically music formed of simple waveforms used in old systems like the NES, C64, etc.
Some people, like me, really like chipmusic for one reason or another. My problem is that I can't find a decent way to create it. I have found different options.
Midi was the first one I ever tried. There are really nice chipmusic soundfonts out there, but every single one of them has a little problem that makes them unusable in some cases. Famicom has all the basic waveforms and doesn't cut off at random places, but it really lacks stuff that could immitate drums. MP NES Composer has all of that but it's all made of tiny samples so the higher the note is, the shorter it has to be, and the samples are tiny. The nes soundfont has very strange program numbering and also lacks percussion. The sequencer problem is also there. QWS works most of the time but not always.
Then there's the bgt tone synth. Not bad, but honestly, with the amount of effort you have to put into one single song, it's not even worth it. The soundtrack object helps, sure, but then you can't pitchbend, change the volume of individual notes to make them fade out and in how you want and a bunch of other stuff. It's really limited.
I've started looking into ways of doing this which don't involve midi or bgt, and I could only find chipmusic trackers which weren't accessible or needed to be ran on the actual old systems, which really doesn't help blind users.
Here's the question: Does anybody know of a way to *PROPPERLY* write good chipmusic? I've heard of music markup languages but the only one that could work is only in Japanese.
Thanks in advance!

A fight we cannot lose.
An enemy we cannot defeat.
A destiny we cannot escape.
Follow me on twitter @guilevi2000

2014-09-21 14:24:24

I'm not fimilar with bit rate. Is it the same as, eight bits in one second, or how man units of one sound can be used at one time? I know sampling is similar, where you basically have to draw a certainment number of units from a pool in one second. It's lie if I were to draw four cups of water in two seconds. The pool could be shallow, so there would not be enough for me to draw, or I could draw four cups of water in two seconds in a big pool, where the water level will hardly change. I'm actually wondering if bit rate uses this same analogy, or if it is slightly different. I also noticed tht chip-tune music is made from square and sawtooth, but not from sine. I also noticed tht the sounds produced by modern systems and the ones made by older systems sounded different. For example, let's say I took a square of 167 HZ on an old Apple Ieee system, and the same square wave of 256 HZ on a Windows PC. The one produced by the older system has a different set of harmonics than the one produced by the newer system, even though both fundamental frequencies are the same.

Ulysses, KJ7ERC
She/they
Reedsy

2014-09-21 21:56:05 (edited by Aminiel 2014-09-21 22:00:39)

Hello,

I already tried some mod trackers, and up to now I never found any one that was accessible.

Anyway, I suppose that the best option nowadays is to go for MIDI. There are lots of programs to create MIDI songs, and some of the are known to be accessible, additionally to the fact that you can compose your song on your MIDI keyboard if you have one.

The big difficulty is just to find sample banks. Links would be appreciated, notably for drums.

EDIT: aha, problem in the same topic: do you know programs that are able to read .sid files on windows ?

There are 10 kinds of people : those who know binary, and those who don't.

2014-09-22 02:53:29

famitracker is is the most accessible option. I'm on their forums by the way, I'm known there as kingcandy (which is a wreck-it ralf reference)

be a hero and stop Coppa now!
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Dkm … DkWZ8/edit
-id software, 1995

2014-09-22 12:33:03

What about writing a computer programme that actually makes sound, such as what the vOICe uses? Those prorammes make sound without using MIDI.

Ulysses, KJ7ERC
She/they
Reedsy

2014-09-23 09:54:40

how does famitracker work?

ReferenceError: Signature is not defined.

2014-09-23 23:36:32

Read the manual. Basicly, you create an instrument (you can have 64 of them) and on the basic side just hit keys on the keyboard to insert notes, q for c, w for d etc. hit 1 for note cut, - for blank space and \ for note release. hit tab to navigate through the channels available. hit enter to play your song.

be a hero and stop Coppa now!
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Dkm … DkWZ8/edit
-id software, 1995

2014-09-24 13:31:13

Is Tracker accessible with NVDA? Now this woul make me want to try it. Who makes it, and where can it be found?

Ulysses, KJ7ERC
She/they
Reedsy

2014-09-24 15:09:14 (edited by FamilyMario 2014-09-24 20:19:59)

FamiTracker is not accessible with NVDA, well, at least not the instrument editor when I tried it. If any of you ha success in using the instrument editor with NVDA, congrats. The rest of the program, when I used it, requires sighted help, or if you have some usable vision like me, good. But on my end, when I use it with NVDA, the instrument editor did not work. I believe the rest of the program is fine, but do not quote me on that.
It was made by JSR Software.
It can be found at http://www.famitracker.com

2014-09-24 23:56:14

So the object review won't work on it either?

Ulysses, KJ7ERC
She/they
Reedsy

2014-09-25 15:09:46

You could try it with Object review as I haven't tested it with that.

2014-09-26 17:47:55

I tried it with that and worked mutch better for me, though the instrument editor works better with jaws in my opinion. the effects column, however, is a nightmair to use with any screen reader. fortunately I managed to crank out a lot of good tunes without using effects.

be a hero and stop Coppa now!
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Dkm … DkWZ8/edit
-id software, 1995

2014-09-27 01:23:56

I wouldn't want to say it's holy impossible, but supremely difficult to work with Famitracker. The channel and notes columns are all but unworkable, even with object navigation and all those little tricks. Speaking with NVDA, by the by.
So yeah, just another one of those things your going to have to give up on, at least with any kind of practicality.

2014-09-27 18:23:09

Another one a found is raster music tracker. as long as you only use the notes colimn, it works well for me. It's for the pokey chip in Atari 800, 5200, and various arcade games.

be a hero and stop Coppa now!
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Dkm … DkWZ8/edit
-id software, 1995

2014-10-02 10:04:01

Apologies for bumping the topic, but I thought I'd put my own experiences here. First I'll give my sollutions to the original poster, then I'll ask a question of my own relating to chiptunes.
First off, there are two ways I use to create 8 bit chiptunes, one of which I haven't done much with publicly. The first is using a program called ppmck. It is a Japanese program but has an English patch. It is basically a chain of command line programs that convert an mml file, which is just notes and simple script to make instruments,  into an nsf file, which you can play on an NsF compatible player. There are several Winamp plug-ins which can play NSF files, and other stand alone players too. All of them are free.
The second method I use to create chiptune music is through midi. I was not satisfied with the nes fonts I had been playing with, so I made my own sound font with a program called sf2comp. You don't need SF2comp to use the font though. I still have it hosted, though it is pretty old now and the documentation is poorly written. Here is a link.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/540 … ndfont.zip
The sound font has most of the Nes's basic waveforms and a few well known drum and bass samples from various Nes games. I set up the sound font so that all you get is raw waveforms, which you will have to mess with yourself to make nice chip noises because I was tired of seeing a few presets which really weren't very versatile. You could make using the sound font easier by using MML again to automate things. I haven't played much with using MML data through midi, but I know it is possible, at least to some extent. You could use a MML to midi converter to control a sound font, which depending on your preference, may be more efficient than doing MML through PPMCK.
And now, my question to you all. I love 8 bit synths, and am still looking for new ways to create chiptunes, I do know a c64 MML based language is being worked on, which I am very excited for. Unfortunately we've been waiting a while for its release, and the stuff out there at present is either not very promising or is not accessible. But, let's say I want to make music from slightly more in the future, such as .mod, or .xm files. Those types of files have the musical data like an 8 bit tune would, but they also have samples to go along with it. So, you could have a sample of a trumpet playing one note, set loop points for the sample, and set up multiple channels so you could make a really cheesy brass piece from those one or two  samples. The Snes has such a sound system that relied on samples, but from what I can gather, it was not easy to code for and really was a mess, thanks to Supernintendo and its implementation of drivers. It really does show in some Snes games too, and you can tell which games had better tools to work with the hardware and which ones struggled. The only thing I can find to make sample based chips is a tracker called Open MPT, which is only partially accessible. A friend of mine asked for some work to be done, but I don't think anything was actually started, though the developer(s) did seem open to the idea. There are millions of other trackers out there but I've really backed away from trackers, since I don't know how they work and I don't have one I'd call accessible to figure out. But if there was such a tracker and a decent tutorial to go with it, I would give it a go. If there was such a thing as an mml converter that would allow the creation of such sample based chiptunes, I'd be happy to mess with it, though I doubt such a thing exists because my search for one turns up nothing even remotely promising. Does anyone know more than I do about this?

Make more of less, that way you won't make less of more!
If you like what you're reading, please give a thumbs-up.