2014-08-23 07:32:14

Today I decided to reacquaint myself with the database submission guidelines penned by Dark. In the course of reading them, I noticed the abundance of spelling mistakes that he made without bothering to correct. These mistakes show up in most of the other lengthy posts he writes, as well as in more public items that appear in the main site including news posts, reviews of games in the database, database info pages such as the info on game genre page, etc. The latter items are extremely restricted for a reason, because we don't want any random person posting stuff on the main site for all to see. I am not trying to troll Dark or any other blind person who consistently spells words, especially the same ones, incorrectly, but it does seem like the fact that these mistakes consistently appear, even on official pages that non-forumites will see, such as the info on game genre page, may perhaps detract from the overall site's quality and also could tarnish the reputation of the blind online community, or at least the blind online gamer community. Really, I feel that it should not be hard to at least run the posts through the spell checker; listening to it with your screen reader won't cut it. Of course the spell checker will flag false positives such as Dynoman, but I will say from experience that spelling mistakes, even seemingly minor ones, exponentially detract from the quality of written text. It makes the writer seem less intelligent than he is, or at least it shows a certain sloppiness that cannot easily be ignored.
Some commonly misspelled words and their correct spellings
Examples of incorrectly spelled words (most of these are taken from Dark's writings, but there are some other common errors from other posters here too)
Note: the incorrectly spelled word(s) are followed by a colon, and then the correct spelling.
boppit: bop-it or bop it
brordcast: broadcast
develope: develop
puzle: puzzle
Sterio: stereo
targit: target
sinse: since

I like to sleep, Sleep is good,
This is how I do it: Lie on a nice warm cozy bed, and dream dreams about how to rule the world!
Follow @TheGreatAthlon5 on twitter for humorous facts and game updates!
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2014-08-23 07:45:33

I think that posting a topic or a reply on a topic spelling matters a bit less.  This is a more conversational forum and about games -- so, not as professional.  The news and database, however, in my oppinion, are slightly different.  To me, the people updating said news items and database items are representing the Audiogames.net site.  Many people who may visit the site might simply wish to read up on a new game or keep up with the news.  Since these are more professional and more important, I believe that it should be at least representable and ran through a spellcheck.  Does it affect the blind community as a whole?  Maybe not, considering the nature of the site.  Does it affect the integrity of the Audiogames site?  Yes, due to the lack of care when entering information in the more professional and important areas here.

2014-08-23 18:42:09

Hi.
I honestly think spelling matters a lot. Especially when it comes to writing posts on new games in the new releases room or the articles room or the main page.
It's okay for people to make mistakes when writing in a informal forum like the off topic forum, but when we have a new release or a news post to me, spelling errors are a big no no. Oh sure if you make a couple then that's fine, but at least either put your post through a spell checker or listen with your screen reader. I think dark wrote about this before and basically said he didn't have time to run through the spell checker or that the HTML would interfere with the spell checker. I disagree with that, if you're going to run a forum then at least spell correctly and use the correct punctuation.

yes there might have been spelling errors in my post but I'm not important in this forum, well okay maybe my opinions are but I mean I don't run it as in write reviews and updates for games and things like that.
Also as for the HTML. write your post in one notepad window. then copy and paste it into the body of the page.

I'm gone for real :)

2014-08-23 19:19:15

HTML shouldn't be an issue, just write out whatever you're writing in a word processor and spell check it then add in the tags. If anything this makes it easier to figure out where the tags should go than when you're writing HTML on the fly, as well as making the HTML easier to edit later if you need to make alterations.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2014-08-23 22:48:53

In addition to what has been written above, misspelling also effects the site in google search rankings. Also, you can tell who actually reads as opposed to those who just use speech as their primary way of interacting with text and computers.

2014-08-24 01:27:31

Not to mention that with NVDA and Firefox at least, you've got a built-in spellchecker that's really simple to use.  Spelling errors are clearly indicated and pressing the applications key on them gives suggestions.
I think it matters everywhere and isn't just a problem here.  Blind people have a notorious inability to spell, at least in my experience.  This was a problem for me for years and didn't fix itself until I decided to care instead of having it forced by others.  Spelling is unbelievably important.  It is worth noting that some of our audio threads are actually highly ranked search results on Google, for example.

My Blog
Twitter: @ajhicks1992

2014-08-24 01:51:05

Practising and maintaining good spelling and grammar retains your ability to write perfectly in the long run. I know many perfectionists would feel let down when they feel they cannot make every single thing perfect.

Ulysses, KJ7ERC
She/they
Reedsy

2014-08-24 02:00:08

Just to quickly encourage people, there are more than enough sighted people out there that don't know/don't care how to spell, so sometimes, their forum posts do seem just like some of the ones I see here. And while mine definitely isn't perfect, I try to keep it at the most perfect level I can keep it. tongue

Anyway, you're not the only one, so make them look up at you by being better than them!

--
Talon
Wanna play my Games? Listen to my Music? Follow me on Twitter, and say hi~
Code is poetry.

2014-08-24 04:37:16

The Firefox and NVDA spelling checker has saved me from hundreds, if not thousands, of sloppy typos. I know that Dark personally uses Dolphin Hal as his screen reader and I am unsure of what it reports as far as spelling errors are concerned. I know that NVDA reports spelling errors if they are flagged by a spelling checker. So if I just read my post through with NVDA, I can correct all the spelling errors it sees. It doesn't get much easier than that.

I like to sleep, Sleep is good,
This is how I do it: Lie on a nice warm cozy bed, and dream dreams about how to rule the world!
Follow @TheGreatAthlon5 on twitter for humorous facts and game updates!
If you like my posts, thumb me up!

2014-08-24 05:55:26

To be sure, it's easier to spell correctly when you've got immediate feedback of spelling mistakes.

Dark: it's time you got that Mac. smile

Just myself, as usual.

2014-08-24 07:22:19

Ugh no, I turned off auto correct on my Mac because it was driving me mad. If you deal with unusual spellings such as names of people and places from games a lot it gets really, really annoying.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2014-08-24 07:34:28

Try setting it to lower pitch rather than speak. I find that to be a good compromise.

Just myself, as usual.

2014-08-24 13:55:43

What I have liked to see was autocorrecting tools for teens. I'm not sure what kind of an algorithm would be needed, or if one already exists, but it would detect things that teens like to use and it will change it automatically so that no one will complain, especially people of older generations.

Ulysses, KJ7ERC
She/they
Reedsy

2014-08-24 18:20:36

Sebby, my major complaint was that it tried correcting things that didn't need correcting. Changing settings other than simply turning it off wouldn't really help this, I just got fed up of cancelling unnecessary corrections.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2014-08-24 23:38:42

Hi.
I don't mind things like U for you and R for Are and itz instead of it's. and once you know the text speak as people like to call it, it's easy as well. I don't mind that and can put up with it. What I do mind is important topics on any webpage not only audiogames.net, that have spelling mistakes in them.

Oh and one thing that really really bugs me is than and then. Then it began to rain. On my birthday it was hotter than hell. okay crappy examples but that's all I can come up with for now. I really don't get how people can get those two words confused. I've seen it so many times in stories, in blog posts, sometimes on here too. I can understand if English isn't your first language but for those that speak English as there first language and do not have a learning difficulty like dyslexia, for example, O just don't get it.

Anyway to wrap this up, yes I do believe spelling is very important when it comes to news posts and updating the DB. But not so much on the off topic forum and other places like that.

I'm gone for real :)

2014-08-24 23:50:21 (edited by AlexN94 2014-08-24 23:52:31)

U/you and r/are really piss me off for some reason. I mean how hard can it be to write the actual Word? To shorten a Word that's normally only three letters long like that is just pure laziness if you ask me. I can be extremely perfectionistic at times, and I certainly am when it comes to spelling Things correctly. And I bet that there's going to be a mistake hidden somewhere in my own post now that I've said that, but so it must be then.
Another thing that I just don't get is why some people spell other users' names wrong when replying to them. I can understand it if they're busy and don't have time to check how the names are spelled, but when it happens over and over... I try as often as possible to make sure that I've spelled the name of the person I'm talking to right, to me it's a question of showing just a Little respect, but others might disagree... I can have some messed up opinions at times, and depending on my mood they might also be slightly different from what you see here... I guess I'm just in a mood for ranting today, and especially about something like this since it's a topic that I care a lot about.

so if u think im rite u can click the Carma bottun below cuz thatll make me very happy and .....
Yeah, doesn't look that great, huh? I can't even write like that on purpose.

To see a world in a grain of sand, and a heaven in a wild flower.
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand, and eternity in an hour.
William Blake - Auguries of Innocence, line 1 to 4

2014-08-25 00:41:43

Thanks for someone pointing the spellcheck function in firefox. I honestly didn't know about it until today lol. So thanks again, no more horrible spelling from arq, well, hope not!

2014-08-25 01:13:26

Hi,

I see mention of NVDA + Firefox being able to spell-check entered text, but how is this done? Do you need a Firefox Add-on or an NVDA add-on of some kind? Is it multilingual? I've never heard of such a thing smile

Regards,
Balliol

2014-08-25 02:19:29

you don't need anything, just make sure that report spelling errors is checked in document formatting. I am pretty sure that the dictionary supports different languages; just right click in an edit field and choose the language option.

I like to sleep, Sleep is good,
This is how I do it: Lie on a nice warm cozy bed, and dream dreams about how to rule the world!
Follow @TheGreatAthlon5 on twitter for humorous facts and game updates!
If you like my posts, thumb me up!

2014-08-25 03:36:30

Hi.
I was talking about more spelling when texting on the IPhone I usually write u for u r for r u r for your and things like that, oh and gd for good and dw for don't worry. But not when writing on a laptop for some reason smile

I'm gone for real :)

2014-08-25 03:46:06 (edited by Green Gables Fan 2014-08-25 03:48:06)

I agree with AlexM94. If people aren't willing to write three letters, then autocorrect would do it. Think about this. Would you feel pissed off if the person wrote the letter U, but autocorrect changed it to y o u? You would never know if the person actually wrote y-o-u or just u, because in either case the spell checker would have corrected it. Also, machines aren't smart enough to insert punctuations for you, and I don't like how Internet Explorer and NVDA don't work together, so that's why a third party made something that would work, but Microsoft had to put those stuff in because of competition laws.
Anyhow, I think people not only struggle with spelling, but grammar as well, like run-on sentences, not putting commas in the right places, or using too many punctuations than what is necessary, and of course, commonly confused spellings such as they're and their, etc.
Also, I tend to give constructive criticism, not pure criticism so that the person won't feel bad about themselves.

Ulysses, KJ7ERC
She/they
Reedsy

2014-08-25 05:11:44 (edited by brad 2014-08-25 23:50:16)

Hi.
Actually, with eliquence u can tell when you've wrote u or you. it sounds slightly different.
But with voiceover on iphone you can' ttell the difference.and auto correct on iphone doesn't correct  u for me, it just puts it as u. which i like to be honest it's quicker when you're writing a text to write u and r and all that. As long as you don't go stupid with short hand I think it's okay. A stupid example would be. h1 what r u p 2 2day. i wnt 2 de shps nd it ws fn. it would annoy me and I'm sure you too. so I'm not like that. But I do use some shorthand when texting.

I'm gone for real :)

2014-08-25 07:06:24

KeyIsFull, as far as I am concerned good spelling and grammar is mandatory for a site maintainer. Especially, for one writing up news articles, game reviews, etc that will be read by the general public. I don't think we can expect everyone on the forum to have good grammar and spelling, but I would expect any news articles, game reviews, and other aspects of the site itself to be properly spell checked and properly edited for errors. There are many reasons for that not the least of which any reasonably educated person who comes along and sees those mistakes are going to come away with a negative opinion of blind people.

Unfortunately, all of us have to face negative stereotypes in one way or another, but when one of us posts a message to a mailing list, a blog, forum, writes a review for a site like audiogames.net that person is a representative of the blind and low vision community. People are not only going to judge that person by what he or she says and does, but that opinion can reflect badly on the rest of the community. Especially, if the majority of posts on that blog, forum, or mailing list  are poorly spelled and have serious grammatical and punctuation errors. At the very least that person will assume blind and low vision people can not spell. However, it is possible they may also assume we are poorly educated, perhaps assume that we are not very smart, and may assume all sorts of other things about us just because we chose not to take spelling and grammar all that serious.

The thing that irritates me most about this sort of debate is none of that has to happen. Spell checkers are a dime a dozen. The three major e-mail clients for Windows such as Microsoft Outlook, Windows Mail, and Thunderbird all have spell checkers. There are free word processors like Jarte with a free spell checker as well. So there is no excuse not to have a spell checker and use it. The only reason more blind and low vision users don't is they simply don't care about their public image or anyone else's.  It is easier to be lazy than spend a minute or two to spell check and proofread what they wrote.

Something else that I have noticed is those who regularly use braille displays tend to be better spellers than those who exclusively depend on speech output. It may be a case of out of sight out of mind, but I think braille displays offer positive reinforcement as far as spelling goes. With text to speech if someone misspells the word "since" as "sinse" the chances are he or she will miss it because most text to speech voices will pronounce both correctly. However, if someone is reading along with a braille display the error will be immediately noticeable. So as the lack of braille literacy increases among the blind its possible that we are seeing that through increased spelling and punctuation errors. I don't know that is going to be something we can solve without forcing blind computer users to be more diligent about spell checking and grammar checking their work with free tools.

Sincerely,
Thomas Ward
USA Games Interactive
http://www.usagamesinteractive.com

2014-08-25 09:12:49

Actually I've heard that literacy among blind people has been dropping like a stone since some idiot came out with a concept that braille didn't matter any more now we have wider access to screen readers, with the addition that major VI organisations aren't doing enough to promote braille. Myself I learned English as a sighted person so I'm quite fortunate to have escaped the whole mess.

Oh and anyone who says could of when they mean could have or could've needs taking out the back and shooting, I'm sorry but it's so widespread among all quarters of British society and from what I've heard at least some amount in US society that it drives me mad. When people in spoken English use it they pronounce the of so distinctly that it's glaringly obvious, much less the irritation of it appearing online.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2014-08-25 13:21:02

I agree with CX2, and at Brad, what does P 2 mean? Part of the thing to note is that many of the stuff used in short hand lingo I do not understand. Someone asked me if I ever used the internet, because I would act like one of those people from the 1970's (before texting was invented. I still see people writing with lower-case I's instead of upper-case ones such as 'i am going to miss summer', so that the screenreader, such as eloquence and eSpeak would draw out the vowels instead of blending them together, the way you're supposed to.
@Toward, not only does having good spelling and grammar make something look readable and well-educated, but it also poses and makes an impression on the person that the person is on a very good and honest web site. I have been to many sites for products they sold here and there, and right away I knew if they were a fraud by the countless numbers of spelling mistakes they made, and they were made by sighted people. You would think that blind people were better than the sighted because we don't see what we need to do, so we pay close attention.

Ulysses, KJ7ERC
She/they
Reedsy