2014-08-17 00:37:59

Hi all!

For the last couple of weeks, I've been working on a really fun pet project. I have built a little phone system that I call the Blind Date Line. You choose some criteria for the types of people you'd like to talk to, and optionally record a little presentation of yourself for others to hear. You can then browse the profiles of all the users who match your specific criteria, and of course respond to the ones that interest you. You also get your own personal inbox where you can listen to messages sent to you by others.

This system is primarily intended for dating, but there is a friendship category as well. So even if you're not looking for  dating/romance, you are more than welcome to sign up and hopefully meet some new friends. Currently you can call the system either  by using a phone number in California (USA), or directly using a SIP client. If you use the first option, the cost is the same as  for a regular land line call to California. I have plans to set up numbers in other areas/countries as well (feel free to suggest  some!) If you call through the so called SIP protocol, the call is completely free. For more information as well as instructions  on how to call in to the system, please visit http://www.blinddateline.com). Please note that the website is still under  construction, so not all the features mentioned on the actual phone line are currently implemented. The system is very new, and  I'm just posting here to see if there is any interest. If I find that people enjoy using it, I have lots of plans for changes and  additions.

As I mentioned earlier, the service is free other than the charge for the call if you use the regular phone number.

Thanks for reading, and please do give the system a try! I look forward to your feedback!

Kind regards,

Philip Bennefall

2014-08-17 07:17:26

Hmm, curious. How does profile identification work? I notice there's no online signup so I assume there's some kind of over the phone registration? Does it just give you a numeric user ID to enter when you call?

The biggest issue I think you might have is user uptake. The fewer users you have the less likely someone is to sign up, a very difficult chicken and egg situation. I very much hope you can overcome it though.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2014-08-17 08:01:43

I've always wondered how people made their own telephone network, but it seems you need a lot of technological skills to do it.
I fond an article on How Stuff Works which explains how to build your own telephone network.

Ulysses, KJ7ERC
She/they
Reedsy

2014-08-17 08:22:26

I'm sure not everyone can just do it or they probably would be but my guess is that Philip is using some kind of virtual landline number to SIP service so everything goes through the SIP server ultimately. At least if there are such services that's how I'd try doing it myself.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2014-08-17 12:11:34

More dating services... I'm sure you can find better things to do Philip

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2014-08-17 14:11:34

Hi,
I agree. I myself would just use voice chat and find someone, rather than a date line.
I'm very sad to say this, but I can't help but feel... disappointed. With all this modern tech, this... is what you'd come up with? I don't mean to sound harsh, but seriously. This is 2014, not 1990. This feels like something for the older generation, marketed to someplace like the royal national institute for the blind in the UK, or the National Federation for the Blind in the US. To me, this does not sit well, what with the NFB going after Apple and potentially hurting all the advances that companies have made, both apple and google, and who knows what else. I just hope they know what they are doing, and that they can solve it.
I'm sorry for taking this off topic, but... I... just don't know about this. It just seems... old.

2014-08-17 14:51:05

Wat ust a minute. Why are things based on trends? Trends are for losers, in my opinion. You know what they say, here today, gone to-morrow. What makes dating systems exclusively for the 1990's? Is it because people of newer generations find the more advance stuff like Skype and Apple to be more convenient than just a simple party line? I think there needs to be a balance with how much we care about living up to time changes and how much we want to preserve old technology, because some of that can still be good.

Ulysses, KJ7ERC
She/they
Reedsy

2014-08-17 16:44:37

I let the folks know on twitter... So will have to see how things go.
This may truly take off to be honest...
And not everyone wants to use skype folks, or can't. Just saying.

Ah, some places that may be good for extra phone numbers are:
Denver, 303/720
Colorado Springs, 719

Can't think of other area codes right now.

2014-08-17 16:55:48

Philip, I for one like this idea. I am looking forward to checking this out. I can see from other posts on the topics that some are really not keen on this idea of a blind dating phone service, but I do think it could be another tool for some of us wanting to meet others around the world who share interests and want to meet.

Aaron, just because something is old does not mean it is necessarily bad. Skype, Facebook, Twitter, and other technologies are good and have their place, but I do not think they necessarily mean we throw other forms of communication away just because it seems old. Frankly speaking if you want to make a case for something better, something newer, do so but your argument has to be something more constructive than this or that is newer than x. That's no argument at all.

Besides, there is a huge and glaring fallacy in your argument. You are assuming here that everyone has a computer, and that they have access to the same technologies as you do. While many blind users we are likely to encounter probably do have computers, the internet, and thus can sign up for voice chat etc, but that is not necessarily the case for everyone. I am sure there are blind men and women here in the USA as well as elsewhere that have no regular computer access at all who could benefit from Philip's new phone service. Just saying everybody must use Skype, for example, puts those sorts of people at a disadvantage because you assume they have the same technologies and financial means as you do to communicate via that particular technology.

Finally, regarding technology as being old I never get why people think just because something is "old" that instantly means we must do away with it. Having newer technology does not necessarily mean we should trash something just because the technology is old.  Far too many people have adopted this newer is better attitude when in some cases its not any better than the technology it replaced. Its a phenomenon called perceived obsolescence, and companies have been using it to exploit the market for years.

Sincerely,
Thomas Ward
USA Games Interactive
http://www.usagamesinteractive.com

2014-08-17 18:04:25

I'd also like to point out that no one has "gone after" Apple. Listeners of the maccessibility podcast will know that the NFB resolution is an internal matter not a condemnation, it is a goal to encourage accessibility within a broader spectrum of apps within the app store. Any talk of legal action came from a single individual speaking without authority for the NFB and most definitely speaking out of turn, unfortunately this is the part most media seems to have been focussing on. You could argue whether this is the right approach or not but frankly it wasn't really intended as anything more than a campaign goal to encourage as I said a broader spectrum of apps to be accessible and what the NFB chooses to do with its time is none of our business so long as they don't start giving blind people a bad name, which they haven't.

I'll also point out that the trouble with voice chat is with things like Skype you need to first find someone to voice chat with. The major dating sites are also notoriously inaccessible and yes dating sites are a viable thing in this modern age, look at how much business they get. While I'd much rather see mainstream dating sites made accessible I don't have the resources to force this and the organisations that do seem to lack any interest in doing so.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2014-08-17 18:38:38

I think this is a great idea for those who don't have the privlage of modern technology. Not to mention, nothing like hearing someone's voice instead of poking around on dating sites, or hoping someone might contact you from one of those sites.

2014-08-17 19:32:35

Hi guys,

I've been following this thread with interest, and would like to make a few brief comments. First, thanks a ton to those who are  trying it out! I'm really enjoying watching the database grow.

Now, regarding some of the other comments:

@Oriol: Certainly I have better things to do with my time. I have lots of projects going, but every now and then I like to try  something I've never done before and really just explore some new territory. I have always thought that these old style phone  lines seemed kind of fun and wanted to try my hands at making one. I spent about two weeks on it, so not something that took  months and months to do but afforded me an enjoyable learning experience. As I said in the original post, it was very much a pet  project that I don't intend to spend years on. Smile.

@aaron: My intention was never to try to make something groundbreaking, or something that would replace something else in some  way. Skype is great, and I use it daily. But as was previously mentioned, you need to have found someone already if you're going  to Skype with them. Whether someone chooses to do that through a forum, a dating service, or in a bar is up to them. If you're not  interested in the system or feel that it is not useful, meaningful etc, that's obviously your call. I am under no delusion that the system will become huge,  or that it will be particularly popular. I made it, it's here, and those who like it can use it. Those who are not interested are  of course free to use something else. How you get Apple and the NFB into this is beyond me and I won't go there.

Now on a more positive note, as I said I am really glad that so many people have already spent the time checking out the system.  If you tried it but didn't understand something, didn't like a particular feature or want some additions/changes, by all means do  let me know! I'm always happy to consider requests for new functionality etc, and of course if you find any bugs let me know as  well. I'm going to improve the layout of the website over the next few days, too. Currently it looks terrible and it's  embarrassing. Laughs.

Hope to see some more of you on the line!

Kind regards,

Philip Bennefall

2014-08-17 20:59:21

Hello,
I helped beta the system, it's quite fun!
I'm having fun with it now its live.

2014-08-17 21:44:08

Personally, what simultaneously frightens and saddens me is how much blind people feel the need to proceed as if the rest of the world doesn't really exist.  Perhaps this is why every time I come back to this site I usually feel like someone looking in from the outside rather than someone who has been a part of it for the better part of 5 years.  I won't say I haven't talked to great people, won't say I haven't had many a great conversation or seen many a great bit of writing on here.  What I will say is that being blind doesn't limit me to seeking sighted friendships and having them.


Up until the year 2009 I hadn't the slightest idea this community even existed.  While I knew I wasn't the only one, I also figured that everyone else would feel as I did, that being blind wasn't more than a thing, a matter of which one must deal with in life because it is as it is, and then going on with life, talking to everyone else and not being limited by a label.  I was well aware of our necessities; the concept of accessibility existed in my mind even though I had no word for it, not ever having really spoken to blind people.  it wasn't out of disrespect or hatred or anything malevolent; it was much more simple than that; being blind didn't make a person worth talking to in my eyes.  That's not the same as being blind being equated to worthlessness, but if that was your defining characteristic in life, then I'd have to say there really wasn't much left to know about you.  when I came across this forum and its members I set about figuring it all out.

I found myself disappointed more often than not at the complacency that seemed to have settled over blind and visually impaired people, a sort of peace at the prospect of there being no possibility of acceptance in a majorly sighted world.  Let me make myself clear before one of you decides to take off my head; I have no issue with blind people talking to other blind people.  What I find incredibly disturbing is when one exclusively limits one's self to nothing but blind people, making excuses as to why they cannot integrate into a sighted world, all the while claiming they are normal.  How could sighted people ever see any of us as anything else other than blind people if that is the only side of us we are showing?  What kind of message are we sending as a whole when we aren't willing to take the risks necessary to be part of the world rather than trying to create a little world of our own?  Where is the chalenge worth fighting for in a community that refuses to open itself up to greater possibilities by simply looking for every day perspectives from every day people, and how can a community of this nature thrive on anything productive, anything which isn't a ces pool of drama, of insults and cliquish, nonsensical banter for long?


I was shocked when no more than a month ago I saw what could possibly be the most stupid slogan I've ever seen in my life on a website that claimed to be dedicated to blind daiting; "Love is blind, and so are you."  I wanted it to be a joke; I even laughed about it... I wanted it to be a joke so bad I had to run it past sighted friends who laughed along with me.  Deep down inside though, joke or not, I knew it was a great possibility, nay, probability that yet another one of these ideas had sprung up once again, and the dread that filled me was incredible.  I've tried to give it little thought... Until now.  Far be it from me to claim that anyone who does things like this has good or bad intentions when doing so.  I can't help but wonder though, what kind of thought process would compel this sort of action and why?  I know I'll never have AOL as it was back in 2003, back in the days when I could wander into any of the various chat rooms and see more than 30 people connected at a time and it wasn't about braille equipment and screen readers, not about accessible software and the cheapest hardware solutions for the blind, not about who's program was better than who's and the whys and why nots.  Was there fights?  Yes, but there always is, and they had nothing to do with being blind.  Was their disagreements?  Yes, but again, they had nothing to do with being blind.  Social networking progressed and we went from AOL and MSN to MySpace, Facebook and Twitter.  ON the surface though, while the technology is different and the rules have changed, the people are still pretty much the same.  It's not always easy to convince people that I am but another person just like them, a person with my own oppinions and ideas, a person capable of as much and in some cases more than they are.  I refuse however,to throw up my hands and say that such obstacles are the end.

When life gives you oranges, demand lemons since everyone else is obviously getting them.

2014-08-17 22:32:46

At nocturnus: Personally i have seen this argument come up here and there on this forum for a while. Blind people are never going to fit in with the sighted world if they don't come out of there shell. I think the critical point that you didn't mention in your post is quite simply, that not everyone, like me for example, do not fall in to the category of only associating with other blind people. While i know you certainly didn't mean to insult anyone, i can't help feeling slightly offended, only because i'm currently seeking a very mainstream career in the tech industry, and don't really appreciate being lumped in to a category just because i have a disability. Don't worry, you didn't say anything to piss me off, but the tone of your post suggests you were directing your comments at the forum as a whole, dissreguarding whether people have lives outside blind internet boards like this one. Personally, i would advise not trying to mentally categorize any group in to a set number of perceived stereotypes, and then making it public, as your bound to bug someone. Again, i know it's not your intention to come across in a negativ sense, but man, think before you post please.

2014-08-17 22:35:47

@Nocturnus: Well said. I definitely agree with the above. And to clarify a little, the title that I chose actually has nothing to do with blindness as such. The title is meant to be read The (blind date) line. If blind people use it that is not something I have the slightest problem with, obviously, but that was never the only target group. The title refers to the fact that you're finding random strangers. I hope this makes sense. If people assumed that it meant a date line only for blind people, that is not correct.


Kind regards,

Philip Bennefall

2014-08-18 04:53:53

Thank you for clarifying, Phil.  Your post, while short, was certainly full of insight and helped me to understand what you were after.


@arq,
Because apologizing for what I stated above would compromise precisely what I stated above, I'm afraid I cannot in good conscience say I'm sorry.  This is not a standard I simply hold other people to and am admonishing others for; it's what I expect of myself.  Let me say that once again; I expect it of myself.  Were I to say this and not actively practice it I would be a hypocrite on so many levels.  I pondered it for hours and discussed it with my father before posting it, who not only agreed, but also gave me a bit I didn't actually place up here which to me was an eye opener; no pun intended.  He stated emphatically that any blind people who refused to deal with this aspect of life were not only doing themselves a disservice by not integrating with the sighted world, but were being selfish in that by doing so one deprives every day people of knowing them for who and what they truly are rather than just seeing them as blind entities.  Certainly there will always be ignorance from sighted individuals, but that goes along another discussion that was brought up in the past on this forum not too long ago about how the nature of humankind is judgmental by default.


Every thing we do, every decision we make from our choice of words to the way we dress sends a message and gives someone else a perception, and every perception will be at the very least, slightly different from the next or result in extreme difference.  Take your post and Phil's for instance.  While you might have seen my post as something that could be construed as lashing out and categorizing this particular forum, he saw it as an opportunity to further elaborate on what he hopes will arise as the result of his project, and as far as I can tell, was not at all personally offended, which brings me to what I will appologise for.


I'm sorry you took such a personal stance on the issue, sorry that the few words in post 14 that I dedicated to the fact that I have indeed met quite a few people on this forum and off of it in the blind community as a whole with whom I have held many a great conversation and have colaberated with in the past wasn't enough to persuade you that I wasn't after you or anyone else on this forum for any reason, not to categorise or antagonize or anything else of a negative nature.  I'm sorry you believe I wasn't thinking before I posted all of the above, because I gave it as much contemplation as I could, have been giving it a lot of contemplation over the past 4 or 5 years, and have always drawn the same conclusions.  I'm sorry I hurt or disappointed you in any way, particularly since we're supposed to be working together, and because my aim was not to pull anyone down; quite the contrary.  If there's anything that being in wrestling taught me though, it's that sometimes the truth is brutal; plain and simple.  It needs to be spoken as it is, not sugarcoated or beaten and grounded to paste by political correctness.


all that aside, for anyone else who might feel offended by it, I will clarify again.  for those of you who have already made it out of this so-called category I seemed to have created without wanting to or who are trying their hardest to do so, congratulations.  My hat would be off to you but I have none.  Keep going; don't ever believe you're less than a person with just as much right as any other person.  For those of you who haven't, this isn't a rant and rave about how everyone who decides to partake in such actions as simply talking to blind people is worthless or useless or anything negative; indeed it is because I've seen what this community as a whole is capable of that I write everything I write.  There are many other things I could be doing right now, relaxing being one of them.  What I want you to know is that because my hope for the community as a whole is as much prosperity as possible in a world that is already tough enough for sighted people to deal with, it may be necessary to reevaluate and consider all of the options on the table.


History tells us about a man named Niccolò Paganini , a great violinist, composer  and overall musician.  During one of his performances, a string broke on his violin.  For those of you who do not recognize the instrument, the violin has four strings, and one might argue that every single one of them is critical to the instrument and the style of music it plays.  To Paganini, a string breaking was nothing but a thing.  he continued playing, undaunted by the fact that he had just lost an essential part of what seemed to make him a violin virtuoso.


As he progressed, yet another string decided it had had enough and joined the first.  Left with only two strings, Paganini might have been tempted to quit; we may never know.  What we do know is that he continued playing as though nothing had yet happened.  Nearing the end of the peace he was performing, a third string was subtracted from his seemingly doomed, possibly sabotaged instrument.  In spite of this he finished the peace and was given a standing ovation.  As people made to leave, assuming that his performance was over now that his instrument was pretty much done for, he was said to have shouted before beginning to play anew,"Variations on One String!"


The stories surrounding Paganini may be nothing more than legend; some people believe he broke strings on purpose to show off his talents.  The end result is still the same though; one string.  Weather all of the rest broke on their own or he broke them, he proved that being on your last string didn't have to be the end.  Blindness is like that.  Some people have had it through their entire lives.  Some people are only now coming to grips with it after having it forced upon them.  We are not, however, down to our last string.  How then, can we give up on the world as a whole when a man's tenacity to be the best at all times proved to us that it could be done with little?  life is short; no one knows just how long any of us will live it.  what we do know is that we have the ability to define our disability rather than letting it define us.  What is blindness and how does it affect us as a whole?  The world has a right to know, and who better to tell the world than those of us who are going through it?

When life gives you oranges, demand lemons since everyone else is obviously getting them.

2014-08-18 06:21:11

I do tend to find the lack of inclusivity, which is why I rather find places and groups that look at the situation as a whole rather than with what they only have For one to be successful, in my opinion, one must see things from as broad as possible, and open their minds.

Ulysses, KJ7ERC
She/they
Reedsy

2014-08-18 09:04:29

If anyone truly shuns company from the non visually impaired I would be very, very alarmed. Another matter entirely are those who only seek VI people on internet discussion media, sometimes for valid reasons  and sometimes not. While we can discuss all day whether it is valid or healthy I want to stress that it isn't really our place to judge them. Also remember that many such people may have mental health issues including severe depression, and that likely isn't exclusively because of their visual impairment.

Ultimately it's unfair to make sweeping statements like that because every individual is different and while it isn't necessarily the best thing for them to do they aren't always in a place where they're capable of doing otherwise. Yes there are those who give people with visual impairments a bad reputation and that's just obnoxious but it equally isn't the responsibility of visually impaired people to get out there and actively improve our reputation, not everyone can be militant about the whole business and the day we reach true equality will be the day we're all able to live a life where we don't have to convince anyone of anything after all.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2014-08-18 11:36:11

Hi,.
I like the idea of the new phone service. Not something which I'll spent hours on, but I like the concept. I'll check it out if I can get a client working on my computer for free.

Best regards SLJ.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
Facebook: https://facebook.com/sorenjensen1988
Twitter: https://twitter.com/soerenjensen

2014-08-18 14:03:08

Hi all,
I must say, the point about others not having computers, well, now that you put it that way, I can certainly agree with this. Unfortunately I don't think I'll be able to convince the ones I know to have a look at this line, but I might give it a shot, as the more members the better.
@noctunous: I use twitter a lot, trying to integrate with different groups there. Sometimes, it works, sometimes, it doesn't. But I've certainly made some contacts here and there from both the blind and sighted communities.
Getting out is also a nice idea, and I try my best with that. I still wouldn't consider myself independant, unfortunately, but it's best to mix and mingle with the sighted where possible. Finding folks nearer my age, now that's a bit tricky. In this situation I often get my parents telling me that they're too busy talking or some such, which I can understand but also find annoying. At that point, it's hard to know when to approach them.
Me, I'd love to find some local gamers or sci-fi fans.

2014-08-18 15:01:35

At nocturnus: In short, i'm sorry i jumped the gun a little in my previous post. Sometimes, as you know, context is really hard to grasp when using a screenreader. What may fully be intended as observations of one person's behalf turns in to a flat sounding attack on the masses. I'm sure you thought your post out clearly, i was wrong to assume otherwise. Outside of this forum, my girlfriend is the only blind person i associate with at all. So, i have a ton of sighted peers, and i understand your point about blind folks who need to interact and mingle with sighted individuals. From the blind people i have interacted with, to be honest, i cringe at how isolated they were, and how much they truly needed to learn out there in the big world where things actually take place outside of there bubble. I certainly wouldn't waste my time being an appolagist for that level of isolation, or the lack of will to mingle with the rest of society. Your points certainly ring true, and we could all take pieces of advice from them.

2014-08-19 04:39:09

I wanted to share with yall, who are still confused of why the name was picked, please see the following official definition:

blind date
noun
noun: blind date; plural noun: blind dates
a social engagement or date with a person one has not previously met.
"a blind date arranged by well-meaning friends"
either person of the couple on a blind date.
"where do you take a blind date, anyway?

Oh, and do please listen to the introduction before creating an account.
Its worth the time in to listening to it!

PS. Yes, I am now a member. No, I haven't created a profile just yet, but I'm happy for what this service has gotten for it. Definitely not just for the blind at all!
BTW, I assume that not all have heard of the Blind Date TV show either?

2014-08-19 10:39:01

I'm sure everyone's heard of the term blind date, the query here was whether there was a double meaning with it in regard to visual impairment. Essentially they wanted to know whether it was just blind date or blind blind date.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2014-08-19 14:38:23

Ah, good.
Just wanted to make sure...