2008-08-19 16:57:44

I think a lot of it is they're trying to guide you down off the path without you slipping, but frankly it just makes it more likely... then when you wobble because you're not in full control they think they did the right thing by averting a disaster rather than causing the problem to begin with. It's them not realising that lack of sight doesn't mean you can't put one foot in front of the other without assistance.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2008-08-20 09:38:58

This is my point of view: maybe the people are afraid to say or make something rude.
the person speaks to the person next to you: Maybe they think, that when they speak to you, that you will not recognise this. And that this can be rude or make a situation that is not nice. I am wondering, what will happen, when the blind has his name on his shirt. Maybe the people will be more confidential and call the blind directly ?

The most of seeing people are afraid of dark. They depend very much on their eyes. Other sense are not used very often or actively.
I think that the people are very interested in the other "worlds" (people with disabilities). But they are afraid, and so they ask stupid questions.

Ok the teacher (the examples here) are really rude. They should be more open to other things.
But it can also be that they are very afraid. They are responsible for their pupils.
Maybe a teacher training to learn more about this topics would be great.

I started with Game Accessibility and of course I know that I have to learn very lot of things. I have to rethink lot of things.
Like blind gamer can play 3D Games. It is possible to use a menu also with on button. But I think it is impossible to learn/ to know such things when people do not try it out. I used Terrestrial Invaders (a game that is very accessible), but I did not recognised that the menu is amazing. I saw it, when I was looking for a solution for one buttons.

Summary: when someone seems to be rude, maybe he do not want to be rude. Because they do not have any experience with it, they behave strange.

2008-08-20 14:26:16

My personal take on this is -
I don't mind if people ask, I utterly hate it when people just assume. Sometimes it feels like people assume you need help going to the toilet just because you can't see... actually I knew of someone who was asked by the local school to give a small talk on being blind, and one kid asked her "how do you go to the toilet?"

People just seem to assume because you can't see you've also got various other problems which have nothing to do with loss of sight.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2008-08-20 17:07:21

Most people simply do not think, or even (as I said earlier in this topic)), considder Vi people as people in a serious sense to themselves. Quite often i've found that sinse sight is such a pervasive sense (I certainly use mine a lot despite not having much at all), people will assume that they require site to do something when it's actually a different sense, --- such as sense of balance, which is involved. this is why i've taken to asking people when they ask me if I need help getting up stairs "why would I? hhow much do you need to see to get up stairs"

The story about me trying to persuade people to let me erform on stage is even longer, nastier and more complicated as well.

I will say the question which most annoys me, beyond anything else is "is there someone else with you?" I remember I had a wonderful example of that last year. a very condiscending old geezer sat down beside me in the theatre, and asked me in a "speaking to idiots" type of way whether I liked the music of the production, and said how well I did. A woman i'd met at breakfast in my hotel sat down earby and said hello. Old geezer immediately exclaimed "Oh! so he came with you" at which point the lady replied in a quite irritated tone "No, he's here on ihis own I only met him this morning and hardly know him at all"

Interestingly enough the next morning she said "You must find that sort of thing really irritating"

One amusing tale about help and toilets which Sandra's post reminded me of. The other day I was coming out of a small theatre. A woman asked me if I knew where i was going (a very silly question), and if she could help me get there. i replied sincerely that yes I knew where I was going, but would rather she didn't accompany me, then promptly went up the stairs to the Gents toilet, ---- she was actually quite amused as well, and appologised.

I'm not sure though Sandra Fear is the term, I think it's just not thinking properly.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2008-08-20 18:47:15

That sentiment seconded Dark. Most people seem to have a strange relationship with both logic and rational thought, if indeed they have one at all, when it comes to people with disabilities.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2008-08-20 19:04:02

I am very interested of things will go on with mainstream games. There is an award for games in Europe. But they do not have a criterion for Game Accessibility. I wrote them, that they should add this.

2008-08-21 13:04:50

Hi, this is Jacques again, or Tablen as you know me. On tuesday I went for a hair cut, and the lady that was supposed to wash my hair before the cut, asked my mother: "Can I wash his hair?" Gur'r'r'r'r! At that point I was a bit rude and I said to her: You can ask me if you want to wash my hair, I have a mouth, I can speak! The only thing that's not in order is that my lights have fused before I was born. Further, I'm a normal human being with a brain and sutch!
She did not know where to stick her head in or where to pull it out. That's something that really irritates me: Why can't sighted people talk to you directly? Why do they always have to speak, via someone else? Gur'r'r'r'r'r'r'rr!

To know, and not to do, is not to know.

2008-08-21 14:25:33

Maybe we need really a test, where someone wears the name on his/her shirt.
I am very interested if this can help.
Or maybe you have to wear a shirt with "please talk to me, i am not deaf". (this is a joke)
I did not know, that there are such problems.

2008-08-21 16:14:02

Hello,
I asked in a Tomb Raider Community, what they think about a Tomb Raider Version that is more accessible.
Answers:
A special exe for disabled is needed.
A special version for each disability is needed.
They are afraid that the accessibility configurations are not optional, and that they have to play very easy level or that they have to play without textures...
Gamers with disabilities need a person that guide them, this is only possible in multiplayer games and the guide has to solve the puzzles.
:-(
I think there is also awareness and knowledge missing by the gamers.
I am looking for AudioGamers that would like to present AudioGames on Game Events in Germany.

2008-08-22 07:33:30

Yeha, that is wrong on so many levels.

Separate exe? Nope just make it a config option, perhaps with a question in the installer or the requirement to give a parameter to the exe on startup the first time. Something like if it was say "traider.exe" you might run it with "traider.exe -vi" or "traider.exe -blind" in the shortcut instead. Most of the code would be reusable betwene both, 3d sound being a definite benefit to everyone just that the VI version requires additional sounds.

Similarly with other disability versions, you just make it a config option. This also helps stop a situation where one version might be updated and not another, and so on. See Terraformers for a good example of making it optional, they even included high contrast mode for people with limited sight without making it a requirement to run it as a separate exe.

I'm sorry, but I despair if anyone who actually suggested a separate .exe actually calls themself a programmer.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2008-08-22 14:25:05

Separate Exes? what have these people been smoking! I'd be glad to present on audio games in germany, ---- but I'm not sure about traveling there from the Uk, pluss of course i'd have to do it in German. Terraformers is I think a lovely example of a 3D accessible audio game engine. i particularly like it sinse it lets me use my site for some things and the audio for others. I just wish it played more like a game and less like an engine example.

Btw Sandra, sinse your questions about toomb raider and other games are game related and certainly not offtopic, you should probably post a new topic in the general discussion forum. This topic was supposed to be about the more social, and less specifically gaming aspects of being vi.

Tablen, while I'm not sure you should've been quite that blunt, I can deffinately understand why. On a couple of occasions when people have asked whoever I'm with what "he!" wants, I have cut in and said "Why don't you ask him!"

Often though, you do have to be careful, sinse some people have good intentions, though as Cx2 said, their logic might be faulty.

for example, when my mum booked the boarding house for this festival, the owner said "and what if he (meaning me), wants a drink in the day, ---- should I go and make him some dcoffee? and how about an evening meal?"

My mum just said that "he" lived on his own anyway, and if he wasn't able to get drinks and such he'd starve!

said hotel owner was just being kind, ---- but was obviously lacking the information that Vi people are quite able to make their own coffee, and locate convenient places which serve food.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2008-08-22 23:21:14 (edited by CJ 2008-08-22 23:22:00)

One thing that kind of anoyed  me was when a kid from school mentioned me to his friends at this church he goes to.  Immediately after he told his frends I was blind, they asked, "Is he retardet or something?"

Connor

2008-08-23 01:59:06

Any one tries t be out of order with me i find some way to hurt them or get someone else like an older friend or brther to do it for me.
If they ask questions like you say thats fine i let em off cus its quite funny but if nt.
Yeah and no ones ever been mean or anything.#
Subreena if there mean to you why don't you like do smething more about it?
And who ever it was whs imbarrised about walking ddown the coridoor and bumping into a girl, why don't you get somene to like go around with yu.
O yeah or you can echo locate?
Why is it that people take mre notice of a blind persn than others>?
First few friends i made i my school was people curious about me, which is fine but a bit strange.

2008-08-24 07:17:31

First of course some people will be curious, it's human nature.

Second, and I can't stress this enough, getting someone to hurt them is never the answer. That does neither you nor other blind people any favours.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2008-08-24 14:47:08

yeah it does gets them to be scared of you.

2008-08-25 03:11:57

Hmmmm Ivandrago, not a great response unless your planning to go into the mafia. Pluss, as I said above, it's always better to fix those sorts of situations yourself if you can, then people will recognize that your a capable human being.

people will be curious, it's just natural, that's why as I said, learning to be a good advocate and explain to people in a reasonable way is absolutely necessary, ---- assuming they're reasonable humans to begin with. If they aren't, ---- then there's no point bothering with them, ---- like the people Cj mentioned.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2008-08-25 16:44:57

Mean people are really rare i've only met one and he was the only one who i had to do that too, but evryone else is cool.

2008-08-25 16:47:12

the mean one was a loner aswell and was bullied badly already. Thats why he was mean to evryone he came across.

2008-08-25 16:50:26

quite afew of my friends are sighted. Quite afew more don't have any contact with vi people apart from me.
Where would i meet some vi people?

2008-08-25 23:14:01

I'm not sure to be honest Ivan. apart from my family, i only know two Vi people and both of them only at long distance over the phone. all of my friends are fully sited, and like yours, have nothing to do with vi people, ---- I was the only Vi person in my entire uni for an incredibly long time,  in fact I think I stil am.

I'm sorry to say, I've run into my share of unpleasant people as well as the decent ones, ---- see my first post in this topic for some of the details.

Btw Ivan, rather than multiple posting, you might considder using the "eddit" button below your original post if you want to add something, ---- it makes reading what you say less long winded for the rest of us. Okay, i'll take my moderator hat off now.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2008-08-26 01:24:31

K will do.

I don't get why evryone just lets people say these things. MAke them sorry for what they do.

2008-08-26 03:02:05

the one problem is that most of the time, you can't tell mean from sheerly bloody minded or tactless. One person I knew, when i first met him said very loudly "why do you carry that stick?" when i explain that I was visually impared, he said "oh, that's why your right eye looks so weerd"

After establishing that he was a maths student, I conclusively prooved to him that actually sinse numbers were a purely human construction onto the universe, and had nothing to do with reality other than shaping our perceptions of it, he was actually studdying nothing at all.

he was quite amused, and we actually ended up by becoming friends. In fact, sinse he was a big games programming type, we had a lot of discussions of audio games theory.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2008-08-26 21:19:07

Ar right ok.

2010-01-16 12:47:46

Both sound amazingly bloody minded, ---- while I've had some incidence of being asked to draw things, ---- I've never had a teacher or lecturer complain at my laptop headphones.

I've had the odd question (most recently while using my laptop in the net access pub at buxton), which I usually respond to by just yanking my headphones out and letting people here Hal, ----- but I've never had a complaint.

while probably not the best response, creddit to your school mates for actually being bothered enough on your behalf.

In the pencil type circumstances, I usually ask "how do I do that?" and leave the ownus on the other person, ---- just to make them actualy think rather than me telling them, ---- I also use this tactic when people ask me if I need to use the lift, ---- "and why would I need to use the lift?"

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2010-01-16 18:31:56

hi
i thought i'd comment on this
i've had quite a fiew things happen to me!
Some were quite offensive, some were even asault
so the little things like teachers!
my worst situation with a teacher was once when we had a suply teacher.
We were talking about the royal family and she stated that after curtsying/bowing to the queen, u were not aloud to turn around u had to back away.
But then she added, oh: rob? i think u could though cuz your different arent u!
Now i was 12 at the time and this got me so wound up i actually said: what the hell miss! but i didn't exactly say hell.! so that got me into a bit of crap, nobody but my mates saw my side!
Another amusing time was with another teacher. I put my hand up and said: sir? could i please go to the toilet?
to wich he said: of course,
Jamie? could u go with him?
to wich everyone laughed. and he said, alright then i'll go with u, just incase
to wich i said incase  what sir?
sir: in case u miss the loo!
now this was just stupid so i just said o sir seriously dont bother and walked off.
As u can see i dont have much   patients .
I also had 1 boy constantly coming up to me asking me how many fingers am i holding up. after he'd done this daily for about two weeks, and i had enough, i kindly said oooh? erm, i'm not sure... could i feel?
he said sure?
too wich i broke his finger!
now! not the best reaction i could have done but he learnt his lesson!
Now to the serious stuff!
i was shopping in wrexham, and a gang was walking down the street, one said! ooooh, look blindy!
and another said,: watch this boys!
he came passed and spat in my face
so there u go!
their the worst!
oh! and the joke people have in my school is to come up to me, tap me on my shoulder and run away, wich is pointless because they know i will react!
sorry for the long post, had to get my feelings down!