2007-06-28 10:32:01

Well, to go on from the "if you had the chance" topic, i thought it'd be good to start a separate thread about blindness and attention, more specifically about the type of attention that people with visual imparements get from sited people.

firstly, as several people have said, I've met quite a few very nice people, ---- some times in banks or shops, or just at uni, who will specifically attempt who will specifically attempt to be friendly because they realize I can't see enough to make eye contact with people, or just because they're naturally outgoing and extraverted and I'm easy to remember. I've quite often made friends out of such people, sinse after getting used to the idea that I'm a blind person they tend to generally forget about it and just start thinking of me as me, ----- this isn't to say they're insensative, they just start being more natural in their perceptions and reactions, such as not being surprised when i talk about "seeing" particular films and stop side stepping around site based language or questions about blindness. One quite good indicater I find when people are starting to think like this are the words "I hope you won't be offended, but" usually followed by a question to do with blindness.

then, there seem to be a fair few people who have trouble getting past the idea that a blind person might in any way be similar to themselves. Quite often people like this want to help, but are highly uncomfortable with talking to me (if I'm with one of my friends, such people frequently talk to them instead of me, even if it's about me), side step around site based language or, (in worse cases), treat me as though I'm an idiot, or do something incredibly socially irritating such as yelling random things. Generally I try to be tolerant, especially if people are trying to help, but sometimes I find this sort of thing annoying and can become sarcastic, eg, on one occasion a lady (Walking quite a long distance away), yelled very loudly to all passers by "mind! the Blind! man!" To which i responded by yelling "yes! mind the man who is not deaf!"

another interesting thing about this sort of reaction, is that I've noticed it takes people, ----- particularly in a group such as a choire), a while to adjust to the idea of me being a blind person. Quite often if I go to a new group, I expect it to take a while before anyone can get used to the idea of talking to me. This is however, something I'm used to.

then, I've encountered some people who are actively unpleasant, discriminatory or obstructive. Luckily not quite as many of these.

Obviously these catagories are just a sliding scale and I've met many people who change their reactions, but generally these are the reactions I tend to get.

One thing I have noticed, which is odd, is that generally British people are much worse at reacting reasonabley to me than people from other countries, ----- including the Us. I remember joining a group performing a play where the director was American. She was absolutely shocked when she realized that everyone else in the group was going through the delayed shock type reaction I mentioned above (and quite surprised when i told her this wass normal and I expected it).

I deffinately think a lot of this sort of reaction depends upon culture and such, ----- as well as how open minded the group or individual is to begin with, as well as how extravert.

appologies for the long post, but I thought I better explain things here, and it is deffinately a topic I'm interested in. What do people think?

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2007-06-28 22:36:20

Dark:
Yeah, sometimes (almost always), people think and treat me as if I know nothing. Liike I am some random idiot, walking along and bump someone not on purpose they go nuts, "sorry about that, oh man are you hurt, are you ok..."
I mean seriously, I try to b accomidating, but not allways does it work.

And then, once people find out I'm blind, well they go bonkers, asking me all kinds of stupid (and obvious!) stuff like:
"hi! Were you blind at birth?"
"yeah."
"could you see anything when you were born?"
"uhh, no... Uhh I was blind at birth..."
"oh, right! Well what was it like?"
"well it's... It's normal I guess, I can get around, do stuff..."
"right..."

And on and on and on it goes.
So, as you can tell some of that stuf was obvious. And, like you dark, people talk to my friends/family:
"oooo... is he blind?"
"yeah, it's andy."

Etc, and I hate when people do this:
"is *he* this. Is *he* that. Does *he* do this, that, and the other thing"
It gets sooo annoying, I've got a mouth, people!

What about other people?

2007-06-28 22:51:42

well some people like there was a little girl a week ago who was like are you able to live without sight and stuff?
yeah there are the groups dark mentioned and yeah some people just go crazy.

2007-06-29 00:38:27

I always like get like people like always saying like after like every like word! Like this:
Like hi, uhh like are you, like blind?
Well the word "like" doesnt have to go after every word lol. But that's not my point. But seriously we've all (hopefully) got a mouth and (hopefully) fingers, and a brain, and other parts of the body, just our eyes don't work as expected. And then there is the idiot way. And I dont know if anyone has had this on them in school or something,
"oooo! Yo man, can you guess who this is?"
"uhh..."
And it goes on and on like that. But I really have time to do stuff, and not enough to waste time wiith kiddy stuff like that. I'm serious; just tell me who you are, got it?Sometimes I dont even answer when the same person keeps bugging me about it, "who am i?" "can you guess who I am?" I just hurry away sometimes, not rude but make up some excuse,  like "I'm late for xxx", and then hurry away.

2007-06-29 05:22:15

Well Andy, when I mean people treating me as though I'm an idiot, I wasn't thinking of people asking about my site, remember that most people have had no experience or idea of what it is like to be blind oor visually impared and thus are naturally curious, often, it's a very good way to help people past the initial shock phase of "waaaah! he's blind" by talking about it in a fairly casual and relaxed way. while I do get those sorts of questions extremely often, I really don't think it's a bad thing, and iin fact, if you want people to start being reasonable with you, being able to answer those sorts of questions is a must.

When I wwas thinking of people treating me like an idiot, I mean occasions where people assume I'm inherently dim, just because I cannot see, ---- eg, speaking slowly with childish language.

One occasion for example, a councel appointed mobility officer was supposedly showing me a buss route (though if you ask me she couldn't show water the way down a plug hole), and at one point asked me "now then! where do you think you are!" (in a tone appropriate to a nursery school).

To which, (of course), I replied "I think I'm on a buss"

this is the sort of thing I mean.

As to the "like" business, that just sounds as if it's a particular dialect thing. Personally, it reminds me of like totally bogus California serfer doods, in like awsome 80's movies! radical man!

As I'm a fan of the original Turtles cartoon and films like Bill and ted, I actually find it rather cool!

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2007-06-29 15:05:15

Myself when people ask questions I try to answer as best I can, on the basis that there is one person in the world that is a little more illuminated hopefully. So far I haven't had two questions asked in different ways but with the same underlying meaning like Andy. I have hower heard of someone who was asked to go talk to some kids at a school to which one of them asked "How do you go to the toilet?"

Also at college I've had a few incidents such as "Look out for the hole/wall!", and had to dodge a football in one area leaving one building into a small courtyard area. Yes it was the round type football not the American version. I've been hit by it several times, well not the same ball but in the same place, during my time there and it always made me nervous. It's not as if they permitted it technically either.

I did once though have my grandmother complaining to me about how annoying tactile paving is under her feet, saying she supposes there is a reason for them but she didn't seem to know what.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2007-06-29 20:56:34

Yeah, like that dark; exactly like you described. Couldn't find the words I guess. And I know this is nothng to laugh about, but that mobility thing about the bus had me cracking up, it's logical that you're on a bus...
And also what I mean about the questions is the same person keeps asking me th same questions, which I already answered 60000 times for the same person, keeps rephraising like this:
"are you blind?"
"umm... uhh yeah..."
"cool. Are you blind?"
"uhh... umm yeah, uhh, I cant see anything."
"can you see anything?"
...
And on and on like that, until I find myself literaly hurrying away with some lame reason.
And that happenes a looooooot; at least, almost all the time I guess.

2007-06-30 15:11:56

That as I mentioned was one thing I haven't had, not sure how anyone can be that stupid. I have had people talking to people who are with me though asking them instead of me, and if I'm walking down the street alongside someone my mother thinks they give her funny looks if they have to dodge me as if she should be dodging me around them.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2007-06-30 16:57:01

Heh. That's interesting cx2, because it really is kinda that way with me, too. But I sorta go around people (I'm usually not on a street by myself, not yet at least), so I haven't experienced  that.

2007-07-01 02:30:45

Well, if the person was asking constantly as you say Andy, it might be that they were just being immature. Kid's reactions can be less pleasant than addults, but maybe I'm prejudiced  sinse I had a pretty awful time at secondary school, ----- as much to do with the fact that the school was an absolute hole as with my site.

the ball thing is rather bad Cx2, mostly because people caught up in playing football don't tend to notice. I've quite often had to walk past a bunch of people playing football in colidge, but luckily on the occasions where the ball's come close to hitting me the, people have stopped playing for the few seconds it takes me to get passed.

As The speaking to others thing really! get's on my nerves, especially when it's something involving me, eg, once when paying for cinema tickits on my switch card, the person behind the counter said to my friend "can you ask him to sign?" I must admit at those points I find it rather difficult to reign in my sarcasm so I said to my friend "Can you ask him to talk to me, sinse it's my card"

i do quite often regret these sorts of impulses.

For the street thing, I've found it very much depends upon the part of the country. In nottingham people are quite funny about things, as it's a very large city in the midlands. My dad once told a cyclist off quite seriously, because the cyclist was riding down the pavement, had to stop and wait for me to pass and gave me an incredibly dirty look, ----- especially sinse legally the cyclist shouldn't have been on the pavement in the first place. these sorts of reactions though, are luckily not too common.

the problem I tend to find with people's reactions mainly, is what I said about the 2nd reaction, ----- people who spend so much time thinking about me being blind, they never actually considder me as me.

Again though, this is by no means universal. I've just come back from my Ad&D session (unfortunately probably the last one until september), and met a couple of people who hadn't been there last time, but they were absolutely fine, ----- one of them was incredibly impressed with the Gma dice program that I was using on my laptop, and is going off to download it himself.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2007-07-02 03:44:46

Hmm. Dark when you put it that way, it gets things start to click lol. People are just sooooooo crazy sometimes; it's not that I hate people, but when someone talks to my friends/who ever I'm with drives me up a wall! I might as well wear some kind of tag, "when asking me a question, please ask me, not who I am with."
Heh... I seriously might consider doing that, if I have to put up with it; even my teachers, once there was such a big crowd at lunch, and then we went to history, then to math, and to get to math you had to go near the lunch room, and I found myself in an utter tangle of screaming, yelling live things; I actually had to ask someone (kindly) for help; and when my teacher saw us, she was all like "did he bring his homework?"
"umm... why ot ask me?"
I thought, wanted to say that but really dont have the heart to scold someone for that.

But I suppose I should be scolding (kindly like this):
"uhh, yeah...", kind of butting in, someone said to try that, I thought it would be extremely impolite to just butt in like that, but twice or so I just couldn't bring myself to hold it back, and pretty much after I did it, wanted to tear myself from limb to limb,-- but of course that would be silly, does anyone have any ways to sorta get people to ask you instead of a friend or something?

2007-07-02 10:33:49

Well in the end Andy, it unfortunately all just comes down to diplomacy and good people skills. Despite what I've said in this topic, the majority of the time I try to be fairly friendly, relaxed and open with people, even when they're doing the talk to someone else style of reaction. As my mum once said, it's important to remember that people mostly do this because they're nervous of something strange, -----  a visually impared person, and have no idea how to deal with it. even though I'm naturaly fairly intraverted, most people don't pick this up because I've found ways to talk in a relaxed fashion and put people at ease.

for instance, if in a restaurant the waiter/waitress was taking people's orders, and asked my friend "What would he like?" I'd respond myself with something along the lines of:

"well, I can't quite decide, ---- er ---- that Barbacon steak thing sounds nice, what exactly is Barbacon source?"

And thus start a conversation with them, ----- though of course, I wouldn't ask anything I didn't actually want to know in the first place sinse that wouldn't be genuine, but the important thing I've found is to remember that they're the onese who are bothered and to try and get them to be comfortable.

Generally this isn't something you can plan, it's just a case of being relaxed, and showing the other person that your a reasonable human being despite having less functional eyeballs.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2007-07-02 14:15:53

It is probably good to answer yourself rather than let the other person answer for you yes, it isn't any ruder than what they did and so long as you are polite they have no real grounds for complaint. I mean polite in your tone of course. If your teacher did complain and give you a telling off then you would be within your rights to complain about them so I wouldn't worry too much about that.

If you do this a time or two most people should start to get the idea taht you are able to respond and start adressing you instead. If not then it is time to start kicking in a little venom, but only mmildly.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2007-07-02 14:56:49

It also helps if you have friends who understand this, and will contribute by being decidedly unhelpful.

I remember one occasion, similar to the restaurant situation I mentioned, when I was out with my wonderfully tactless and rather sarcastic russian friend.

when she was asked "what would he like?" she instantly came back with "how the hell should I know, you'll have to ask him" which was entertaining, if slightly extreme.

with a teacher though, getting in trouble wouldn't be good, ----- I also wonder if this is a case of slightly mistaken motive. I've known lots of teachers come out with things like "I hope he's bought his homework" to one pupil about another.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2007-07-03 01:50:43

Well that wasw interesting dark, about you friend and the thing about the server asking your friend instead of you. Because thats a good way to put it, and that was a bit extreme; I agree with you on that.

2007-07-04 01:45:08

well my friend is rather like that, ---- in her spare time she does viking reenactment and clobbers people with large broard swords.

It is true that on those sorts of occasions, perceptive friends can help, ---- but all this generally comes down to people skills once again.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2007-07-04 11:25:58

lol I'm beginning to like the sound of some of your friends. Clobbering people with broadswords sounds an... interesting passtime in a way, not that I would do it laugh. Must make for some interesting people though.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2007-07-05 19:30:46

hey guys,
I just had a fews things to say about this matter.
I hate when i am walking down the hallway at school and i bump into kids, especially girls, and they just sort of crumple backwards away from me and go about laughing and such.
I have had some stupid instances like this kid asked my older brother if I was blind and he said yyes so he asked my older brother if he could show him some sign language. haha so stupid!
As far as the thing wher other people ask the person next to you a question that should have been spoken to you, I have not noticed that too much but probably as time goes on...

Connor

2007-07-05 19:49:07

Well in all cases there are people who find it hard to accept, and then there are people who are just plain stupid. This last category I wouldn't worry too much about frankly.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2007-07-06 11:10:38

hi!

i have gone trough both discrimination and not-talking-to-the-blind-girl-but-i-talk-to-her-friends-instead.
i was on the store with my best, kind and only friend Jenny. we should buy soft ice cream.
"What do you want?"
"chokolate."
"and what does she want?"
"talk to her, it's not dangerous and she will understand you!"
she seemed surprised and then she asked me. from then, she allways asks ME. when we got out we had to stand resting, both were laughting.
another time i should buy chocolate, i was alone, the cashier asked someone behind me!
"which kind does she want?"
"Wath, who do you mean?
"sorry!" i said "please! talk to me! ask me! i have ears!"
the other person started to laught and agreed to me.
"it's right, why not, she knows and we don't need to send the question around."

another time, when i was on a school trip, we were on a competition.we were three persons in each team. the contest was in threee parts, so every contestants should do a part. who was left outside?
"she can't do annything"
"she is useless"
they was whispering for a long time. they treated me like air!  i tried to tell the leaders of the contest, they didn't care, when they'd talked to the team. the whole trip was boring untill i had to rescue one of the team members. she fell out of a boat!
is it wrong to stand for it's own rights when you are prevented to do something that you use to do?
my art teacher got so angry with me when i sat cutting paper.
"you should ask for help instead"
" not really if i know how to do it, i've done this fiftyelevenmilionstwentytrillions of times."
"that can't be true. i will talk to your parents"
she got a surprice when she heard the answer:
"yes, she use to do it"

sorry for the long, strange post and the spelling, punktuation and grammar errors.

I live to crochet!

2007-07-06 15:11:46

sabrina,
That sounds really bad and I have never had to put up with that kind of crap.
I can't believe you can actually stand that.  If that happened to me like that thing with the art teacher, I would have smacked her across the face!

Connor

2007-07-06 17:48:03

Just for the record "smacking her across the face" would be entirely disproportionate and would not help your case any.

However if felt necessary an official complaint to the school would.

Anyone who would strike someone for such an action might consider anger management classes, assuming you weren't exaggerating a little.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2007-07-08 10:53:19

how some people can possibly do that just because someone's blind. it's ridiculous.

2007-07-08 17:04:21

Hmmm, yeah people always ask me, "how can you live?"
Well it is obvious that anyone can live, wether they've got an eye issue, their hearing's not too great, whatever it may be; it's  there...
so I replied with "Uhh yeah; and?"
"and what?"
"and youy mean..."
"well, I thought blind people die or something."
"what? Oh no..."
And to myself:
"what the hell, is he nuts?"

"or, right, well se you later, then."

And I hate when people think that blind people die, like actually just caboom! and your dead...

2007-07-08 18:09:02

you are right, he is nuts lol.