2014-07-29 17:16:26

@Trenton, I'm not surprised there is an Ipad only ap, as I said most of the things I've heard of that will work on one but not the other have been Iphone but not Ipad but I've certainly not seen everything. An Ipad is indeed essentially a tablet computer I just don't see too great a need for both just on screen size.

@Chris, well this is likely a preference thing. but remember technology and  fashons change. Back in the 90's I had uge rick of a mobile phone wit massive buttons and noscreen, ---- really I could've fitted two Iphone fives into it comfortably, and all that did was phone people, though if I ever got mugged it would've made a pretty effective club big_smile.

As I said I personally don't mind the screen size. thing, particularly sinse I carry a shoulder bag around with me anyway, actually I approve of things getting bigger again. There was a point when everything in design was getting so tiny it was ridiculous


I remember once  seeing an mp3 player half the size of a modern memory stick with buttons about half the size of grains of rice which you literally needed to operate with finger nales and which were so clumped together  pressing just one was a nightmare! especially sinse the thing had so many modes and random features  each of the five or so buttons had god knows how many functions which was particularly irritating if you couldn't  see the half inch square screen , so personally I'm glad we've stepped back from the miniturization monstrosity and as I said I see bigger screens as being very helpful to blind users even if not for the same reasons as for a sighted user.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2014-07-29 17:59:15

agreed with dark on screen size. at the same time, I personally prefer something not too large, not too small. may be 5, 6 inchs. and no, no replacing my phone with a Tab of 9 inchs. that's too... what do you call it? big_smile

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2014-07-29 18:55:55

It's iPad apps that are distinct from iPhone ones, yes, however there will typically be an iPhone version with a simpler interface. Skype, for example--nothing stops you using Skype for iPhone on an iPad, but there is something stopping you from going the other way. And the iPad version of Skype is better suited to the iPad's screen (including the Mini) with its popovers and larger tab bars. The iPad also goes to 128GB in capacity. Other than that, the functionality is more or less on par, and if I had to pick just one, it would be the iPhone since that's the only supported device for sending text messages and making phone calls (but shouldn't be).

Just myself, as usual.

2014-07-29 19:21:46

Hmmmm, interesting Sebby tht the fixes for Ipad are primarily screen based, sinse if indeed the Iphone 6 does come with a larger screen it might make some changes with this. I did think though there were some games and other things that wouldn't work on Ipad such as star traders elite but I could be wrong.

As to which device, well for me I got the Iphone for a very similar reason, sinse I thought if I was going to get an I device I might as well go the hole hog, and sinse my Parrot Voicemate died literally the week I got the Iphone, having the contacts list, memo and voice note functions was a nice bonus.

Reading text messages has occasionally been useful, though I don't tend to bother sending them much myself sinse usually I'd prefer actual phone calls by voice or e-mail rather than the halfway house of text, plus of course as I said previously typing is a pest.

I'm not great with measurements, but I know i preferd the size of the Iphone 5 to 4, which was why I chose the 5 (that and Siri), and if 6 has a bigger screen that will be good, heck if the screen is big enough I might be able to use more visual elements along with vo.

Actually isn't 6 going to come with a choice of screen sizes? Or have I got that wrong.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2014-07-29 19:39:22

If you run an app that is not so-called "Universal", then an iPhone-shaped hole appears in the middle of the iPad screen, with a full-screen control at the bottom which when pressed zooms out to iPad scale. This is normally what you want and works quite well to instantly improve the available screen space, which is great for my fingers. I don't know if Apple is going to introduce a so-called "Phablet", but if it did it seems like that it would continue to use a custom iPhone interface drawn for the larger screen, rather than a tablet UI.

I have both and I think both form factors have their place. After some time with a Mini I resolved to have just one iPhone and one iPad, the latter for sit-down sessions and the former for, well, everything else. To be honest, I find the phone function of an iPhone to be a distraction more than a help and would sooner do without it, but the iPod is now way too underpowered, so the iPad has taken its place as my kind of casual iOS entertainment device. I don't say this will be the right choice for everybody, but I do love both.

Just myself, as usual.

2014-07-29 19:50:44

Hi.

Hmm, the iPad is strange.
The only differnece I have found with the iPad is that the settings screen is split.
So, when you press on something like general, VoiceOver says selected general button. YOu then have to move by headings to find the settings which from what I'veh eard are on the right side of the screen.
As for iPad specific apps, is the only difference the screen layout?
I mean would  the iPhone and iPad versions of Skype look and perform the exact same way from my perspective of using VoiceOver for all my output?
I don't have any vision, so I'm just curious if it would be any different between the twoversions.
As for the iPad, do you have iPad versions ofr the mini and full sized iPad or is it just one iPad version?
The only other advantage to the iPad I could see besides the larger screen are those cool multitasking 4 or 5 finger gestures that let you switch between open apps, open the app switcher, and go to the home screen.
As for screen size, I guess it is more of a personal preference thing and I've already said what I wanted to say.

Grab my Adventure at C: stages Right here.

2014-07-29 20:10:05

Well if Apple does produce a phone with tablet screen I'll probably do that sinse it sounds like a good option.

other than the obvious screen size and associated interface fixes, are there any real advantages to the Ipad? I don't exactly know what you mean by "phone as destraction" particularly either, unless your concerned about getting phoned while in the middle of something else, and there I actually like the fact that my Iphone will pause if I'm reading an audio book while my phone rings rather than me having to pause what I'm reading manually.

Oh and btw, Phablet? Worst! name! ever! If it weren't already made up of very obviously made up words, it sounds like some sort of small annoying rodent cutesy cartoon character who's so sweet they're obesity waiting to happen.

I can see it now, the adventures of Fablet the fluffy fuzzy squirrel in snuggle huggle land!"

and to anyone who has heard the big finish special the ratings war, the thought of that is  more than enough to make me become one of Beep's friends after all! big_smile.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2014-07-29 20:22:11 (edited by Sebby 2014-07-29 20:32:46)

Well, this is all very subjective. Of course, nothing stops you connecting up a Bluetooth keyboard to your iPhone and then having Skynet in your pocket. That is entirely feasible, works surprisingly well, and only requires one device. However, what I'd love to see is a keyboard case that allowed you to slot in an iPad, thus turning it into a notebook; now you've got Skynet in a small case, with the benefits of what limited keyboard input iOS has, but especially typing, while at the same time having full exploration that is only possible with a big screen. It's no Mac, but I'm fairly sure my productivity who go up several orders of magnitude. Even when the iPad is out of the case and on my lap, I love being able to touch-type fairly reliably in touch-type mode, which just isn't as easy on iPhone.

As to the differences from VoiceOver itself, it announces split panes and popovers. The Skype app puts more on the iPad screen than on the iPhone, and arguably makes the menu much more useful by having it pop over the contacts/recent and chat multipane view. However, the actual functionality is identical in both versions, obviously, and I have often yearned for the simple iPhone UI on my iPad (everything is always full-screen, Back is used to move up, etc). You can see how this is simpler for us, but less useful to a sighted person who needs to learn the convention in order to use the apps. However, it really is here nor there where I'm concerned, because both are perfectly accessible. There are gestures to move between the panes and dismiss popovers, and it all makes perfect sense to me.

There is only one iPad version, not multiple ones. The iPad version works for both Air and Mini. Not Micro; the iPod Touch uses iPhone apps. smile

@Dark: LOL! Sorry, I didn't come up with that, the great unwashed did. smile

Yes, my phone brings bad news. I put it on its dock, and then wander off with my iPad. The only people who can call/text me are those who have FaceTime/iMessage, which narrows the field considerably. smile

Just myself, as usual.

2014-07-29 20:25:16

All this is fairly subjective indeed,  and I will agree I definitely see the advantage to having a big enough screen to touch type, though I don't think I'd personally bother with multiple devices just for that reason.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2014-07-29 22:10:32

I guess your other iOS devices will get phone calling with iOS 8 since it has that handoff thing.
I heard that you could take calls on your iPad and mac, but how about iPod touch? I wouldn't doubt it unless Apple decided to not let people use handoff on the touch 5; which wouldn't surprise me since they're ready to do that with anything for the sake of money.

Grab my Adventure at C: stages Right here.

2014-07-30 02:16:11

I'm with Dark; consolidation is key here.  What is the point of having more than one device to accomplish the same thing for the most part.  The reality is that tablets have not been as widely accepted as companies primarily hoped they would be, but the idea of larger screens is an easy one to gauge by the overall response generated by the countless models of smartphones that have grown over the past couple of years.  many tablets are sitting around forgotten for the most part, only coming out when there is an application not properly supported on the preferred smart phone as has been the case with the iPhone iPad discussion.  Beyond that they simply collect dust and add yet another price tag to look at and consider for amusement's sake.  If we can consolidate devices and wrap them into one, perhaps two as opposed to 3 or 4 by simply increasing the size of the screen and maybe even space capacity, the need to produce massive numbers of multiple kinds of devices is eliminated.


Perhaps this was Microsoft's original idea with windows 8 and its desire to win back the smartphone and tablet users they felt they had lost; I wouldn't truly know.  What I do know is that it makes sense from many standpoints and that I give them credit for trying even though they seriously failed, since as far as I can tell they never really lost anyone who had misgivings about the differences between every day PC verses smartphone usage, resulting in a redesign that didn't truly suit the windows power users.  I didn't buy into the smartphone hype because I truly felt I needed a smartphone, as most of my every day needs are still taken care of by a desktop computer.  Laptops are a risky business with me, since ultimately charging and recharging batteries reduces how effectively they work, though I do keep one around for special occasions, mainly live musical performances and the like.  I bought a smartphone because I knew that in all reality it would probably be the fastest and easiest thing to use on top of providing me with a box of tools and concepts that might later become essentials in a world where technology grows every hour of every day.  It made no sense not to get at the very least acquainted with the touchscreen world since most devices seem to be heading in that direction, which is why even on my laptop I will experiment from time to time with the touch functionality provided by NVDA.  I can't say I find it very useful, though I can see where a sighted person might.


I've said it once and I'll probably say it again many more times as long as I deal with the blind community; the longer you hold back and don't jump into the waters as it were, the less time you really have to familiarize yourself with the concepts before they evolve into something else that'll leave you far behind the rest of the crowd.  The reason windows 7 wasn't a probem for me as it was for many XP users is that Vista, as dreaded an operating system as it might have been, provided the practice I required to get up to speed on 7 early on.  Windows 8 was certainly a bit of a surprise, though no less difficult than learning new concepts as was the case with the transition from XP to Vista.  The same holds true with smartphones and the like; perhaps they'll grow, and perhaps they'll change shape.  Our job as peple who are blind and visually impaired is to adapt to those changes and learn how to use them to our advantage, as Dark has pointed out in post 22 by showing that larger screens mean we can probably reach more icons with voice over rather than continuously performing tedious flicking gestures.  Tech will continue to evolve with or without our permission because that is the nature of tech, and we must continue to keep up with it.

When life gives you oranges, demand lemons since everyone else is obviously getting them.

2014-07-30 07:04:48

A little off topic, but has anyone tried the new ios jailbreak mentioned on applevis using a tool called pangu? Does it work?

Discord: clemchowder633

2014-07-30 10:00:26

I personally disagree on technological progress or on needing to stay uptodate just to stay uptodate irrispective of bennifits Nocturnus. FAr too often so called new devices and technologies are not so much inovations as whims of fashion, or of some company trying to dress something old up in new clothing or making the previous obsolete just  extra sales , with little practical bennifit.
That however is a point I've mentioned elsewhere so I won't go on about it here.

In the case of touch screens however I think there are some very good arguements that if the access side of the technnology, ie, the screen reading is adequate at providing the access, there are some distinct bennifits touch screens have for Vi users.

One for example is being able to learn the placing of controls and displays and having instant access.

If I want to read the time or battery life on an xp machine, I need to alt tab out of the window I'm currently on, activate the virtual curser in supernova and hit ctrl end to go to the bottom of the task bar on the desktop and look. I'm fairly sure if I were bothered enough I could probably work out a couple of key strokes to shorten this process, maybe even a single one to have the time read out loud.

In ios however I simply poke the top right corner of the screen. That information is there, and can be accessed easily and quickly by simply knowing the area.

another example is analogue movement. A game like sixth sense would be very uninteresting on windows, just another boppit style hit key when hear sound. On ios however sinse you need to add directions to your key slidings via the touch screen it adds an element of coordination to the arcade game that would not be present.

Then there is the idea of games like robo e or stem stumper, that use the movements of your finger and speaking what is under it to show a specific layout in audio (another thing which would be much aided by aa bigger screen).

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2014-07-30 11:27:00

One comment about the time keystroke though... isn't there a dedicated keystroke for supernova that reads it out loud? With JAWS or any of the other screen readers that argument isn't altogether valid since all one need do is just hit the one keystroke either modifier+f12 or modifier+t depending on whether one is using Jaws, Window-eyes or nvda.

Discord: clemchowder633

2014-07-30 11:58:46

Supernova doesn't tend to go in for specific  keystrokes that read set  information sinse it usually goes by   default tools rather than specifically built map files. For example, there is no key to tell when a page is loaded,but you can do that by using read status bar.

I could set one up relatively easily, however my point was more that the information  is there, available on a touch  screen with just the one poke. Ditto with notifications, battery life, signal etc.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2014-07-30 18:35:55

I do agree with Nocturnus here. may be it's just me, but staying up to date with tech as a blind seem to give me a better chance of surviving in a fast pased and constendly changing technology based sighted society. and the assumption that newer technology is often less beneficial than the older one is more an idea generated from the perseaved inability to shift. EG, before 3/4 years, the average blind would have adviced his fello highly against changing to a touch device. and tell you what, the IPhone was almost as accessible then as now. and anyway, how and why is 1 supposed to improve the accessibility of a new technology if there's no user? so, esencially, the accessibility gets improved when we, as a community demand it.

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2014-07-30 20:23:57

I didn't much like the limitations of Windows 8, even on tablets, despite the enormous productivity potential. But I do agree that we need to acquaint ourselves with the latest norms. Every so often some stupid person will say something like, "Let's be honest, a touch-screen just isn't a good choice for a blind person," and I just have to laugh at such astounding ignorance because the evidence of their advantages is right there for everybody to see, irrespective of the platform.

I don't agree that multiple form factors are a bad idea; yes, there's always money to be made, but it's about comfort first and foremost, and we shouldn't be anxious to turn one thing into another purely for the sake of some imaginary technical proficiency. That is how Windows 8 ended up as it is, a dysfunctional pig that nobody wants except the technocrats and fashionistas; these same people will probably jump all over Windows 9 when it hits the shelves.

JMO.

Just myself, as usual.