2014-07-22 23:15:30 (edited by Sebby 2014-07-22 23:21:11)

OK, yes, I know, it's all very silly, but just as with XP ...

It is always a great disappointment when one looks from the future to the past, and sees a great deal more that one liked there, than one does now. Such is the case for Snow Leopard. A reshuffle of my hardware and repurposing some of my older computers to avoid desktop virtualisation saw me looking into what operating systems each could run. Putting aside my rant about Apple locking media to particular Macs, which is a big one so I won't bother you with it right now, the fact is, I miss Snow Leopard. I yearn, I beg for a better time, a time before iOS envy, crippled functionality and poor quality assurance. That was the time of Snow Leopard. sad

Just myself, as usual.

2014-07-23 04:58:46

you know I kind of miss snow leopard as well. I was fortunate to get the version of alex from snow leopard

2014-07-23 05:43:30

Hi.

I also miss Snow Leopard, although for a couple of reasons only.
Firstly, is Alex.
Apple has done a fine job of ruining possibly the greatest text to speechvoice ever made in Lion and beyond.
I did try copying the Snow Leopard Alex to Mavericks, but it didn't completely bring the old Alex back.
It sounded better but still crackled.
The second reason is that stupid gate keeper crap.
I've turned it off, but honestly I think it's a stupid idea and another attempt by Apple to restrict macs like iOS.
Other than that, I don't mind Mavericks since it has some cool VOiceOver features and the interface seems exactly like Snow Leopard.
So, what else does Snow Leopard have that Mavericks broke?
Also, will they ever restore the great lord Alex to his glorious Snow Leopard state?
I heard he would sound better in Yosemite, but I don't know.
Trust me, if I could have the true Snow Leopard Alex in Mavericks, I would ditch all the Nuance voices.

Grab my Adventure at C: stages Right here.

2014-07-23 08:55:31

How is gatekeeper any different to Windows UAC? You can override it easily enough but when it's on it prevents things being installed without your say so.

Other than the voice issue I was perfectly happy with Mountain Lion, in fact my only issue with Mavericks is my mid 2009 MBP is a little sluggish running it. That said the last update improved things quite a bit, not a total fix but a definite improvement. I never once regretted upgrading from Snow Leopard, all the functionality I've used in the past still works now and I just ignore the silly iOS imitating interface.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2014-07-23 09:01:55

Hi.
It might just be me who quickly gets used to things, but the only thing I miss from Snow leopard is Alex.
Safari though, worked much better in Snow leopard, or was it Leopard? I don't know. I quite often see Safari acting weird, crashes and Voiceover goes busy, busy, busy! The item chooser was broke, so I started to use the rotor instead, so I'm not sure on if the item chooser has been fixed or not.
Oh, the only thing I've noticed they really have messed up is network drives and the access to other computers on the same network. So many people, me included, are often having trouble on accessing network drives from the network section in Finder. The work around is to access the drives by pressing command k, and connect from this window. There might be other alternatives, but it's damn annoying how much they have messed this up for such long time. I think they already messed that up in Lion.
Otherwise, I think Mavericks works quite stable.

Best regards SLJ.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
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2014-07-23 16:14:17

I eventually upgraded to Mavericks, and now swear by it, only because of multi-process Safari. In all other respects, standardising on Mavericks is about minimum requirements for APIs, now that more and more software is abandoning SL.

I have no doubt that using SL just brings back deja vu and nostalgia. Even so, more than anything, I believe quality assurance is a big part of why I'll miss it. Let's face it, it worked, it worked well, and only now that Apple have dropped it is it ending up on the scrap heap. Indeed, just ask all the people with Core Solo Macs how they feel about that! Everything else following SL is just a bunch of iOS gimmickry and integration, and doesn't make it a better platform for doing your shit on. Doing your shit is the single reason to have a computer. So, what have I upgraded for again? smile

Just myself, as usual.

2014-07-23 17:48:34

What iOS gimmickery is this? You can ignore all of it, it doesn't have any impact on the existing user interfaces. Compare and contrast the difference between Windows 7 and 8, now who's getting gimmickery?

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2014-07-23 18:12:09

Hi.

I agree with cx2, what's the issue?
I don't care for that stupid mission control or launchpad so don't use them.
It's pretty easy to ignore, just remove that crap from the dock and set the function keys to do software stuffand it's pretty much gone.
The only thing I like is the iCloud integration which is pretty cool since it syncs stuff from my phone to my computer.
As for Alex, I really want the old Alex back.
This is the only reason I would want Snow Leopard back.
As for gate keeper, it does indeed resemble UAC on Windows Vista and higher.

Grab my Adventure at C: stages Right here.

2014-07-23 19:14:07

I'm also not sure which version included the voice over drag and drop function, whenever it was it's great for rearranging the dock. The thing I utterly love is I've gained access to iMessage, facebook notifications, calendar syncing and so on without having to change how I use the system. The controls I use to access the computer haven't changed at all, the dock and menubar still work exactly the same, system preferences still works exactly the same, Safari still works exactly the same. I've grown to like the Windows 7 start menu but any OS upgrade I should choose to make with my desktop will remove this, there's just no practical reason to keep redesigning an interface over and over like that.

I also never, ever use Launchpad or mission control. I'm no worse off for it.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2014-07-23 19:26:00

Yup, that's what I've come to really respect Apple for.
Apple doesn't say oh hey look, we're tired of this interface so lets just build another.
It seems like Microsoft is always unsure of the operating system and thinks it must be reimagined with each and every version of Windows.
When will they learn?
When will they learn that putting a tablet operating system on a desktop computer is retarded?
Oh well, Microsoft is stupid and probably always will be.
At least Apple made the right decision ot keep mobile operating system and computer operating system apart.

Grab my Adventure at C: stages Right here.

2014-07-23 19:34:23

I think MS has the business model of trying to differentiate each version of Windows from the previous one as much as possible. When people ask the inevitable question why should I upgrade? MS say look we've built this great new interface, it does this and this and this. Of course Apple are less dependant on software sales than MS so Apple are more able to afford to have large portions of their user base still on older versions of Mac OS, to MS each computer still running Win 7 is one less sale of Win 8.

In fact Mavericks was free which shows Apple just don't care about operating system sales, they care about hardware sales. At the prices they charge for the hardware that's a good thing of course, but MS don't make computers period. I guess the old method of having software and hardware sold by different companies isn't really working any more in the current environment, the big trouble if MS go down too far is fragmentation in the market. The ubiquity of Windows at least gave people the confidence to buy a computer and know they'll be able to get the appropriate software for it, things could get considerably messier if more platforms start barging their way in.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2014-07-23 21:57:40

I actually do think functionality has been lost. Calendar and Contacts are nothing like their Leopard counterparts. Mail has had several features removed from it; in Mavericks, you can't even display the plain text of messages. New and upcoming features are almost exclusively about iOS coupling, and have no real benefit to the OS as a whole; if I didn't know better, I'd swear Mavericks was Snow Leopard 2.0, with under-the-hood changes to tide Apple over another release, without any real functionality improvements at all.

Yes, Apple is more respectful to its user base as regards UI changes, unlike Micros~1. Yes, there have been VoiceOver changes for the better. Yes, you can now edit OpenDirectory using a GUI application. Yes, iCloud is sweet for contacts and calendar syncing. But let's be honest, are you going to miss that stuff? Really miss it? And is it not arguable that most of what you see should already have been in SL, or can be implemented using external services?

The real horror came when I tried upgrading my first MacBook to Lion, the last version it supports, and it  ground to a halt under the memory strain. Think what you will of M$, but making sure their operating systems are long-term investments is something you could count on. Maybe it isn't true today, but I think the loss of SL is not dissimilar to the loss of XP on the opposing side. Both companies are trying their best to push us in the direction they think of as best, and we're not obliged to take the parts we don't like; with Apple, I fear it's just the lesser of the two evils right now.

And don't get me started on the way Apple locks its installation media to its machines, and even makes it impossible to use earlier media to perform an install!

Just myself, as usual.

2014-07-23 22:05:04

Small point, MS don't see their OS as a long term investment they see them as products with a limited shelf life. Apple use the OS to sell the hardware and frankly I doubt they really care if individual users stick with an older version, it doesn't cost them anything. I have serious reservations about business practices on both sides but that seems a given at this level of corporate tactics, the fact is that that Apple provide Mac OS as a form of support for their hardware so they're freed from a fair chunk of the usual marketing crap.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2014-07-23 22:27:07

Mmm, I dunno. You may be right, but if so it starts with Mavericks and not any earlier version; many people remarked that they'd sooner have paid to avoid the hogwash that Mavericks was on release, and nobody should have been surprised that Apple were going free, because it's not like they aren't charging an arm and a leg for the hardware or anything ...

Just myself, as usual.

2014-07-23 22:32:56

Perhaps but note the prices they charged for Lion and Mountain Lion, they obviously weren't concerned overly much about profits from the OS. I think it was mostly a transition from having to provide upgrade media to being able to offer it by download, something which readily available broadband connections made possible. Of course like you said they really need to given the prices of their hardware.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2014-07-24 14:51:50 (edited by Sebby 2014-07-24 14:53:18)

You're right. Alex is so much better!

Argh, I grieve ...

Edit: what is the exact nature of this disease that has befallen the Alex voice post-SL? Will tinkering with the intonation help anything?

Just myself, as usual.