2014-06-20 17:22:42

hi.
i'm hearing many kinds of english: british, english of united states, english in canada, and etc.
as i know by people, the english in each of these places have a diferent accent.
but i'm can't heare a diferent.
maybe you will record for me one word in each english accent?
and after that it'll be interesting, and i would know in which english each of the games are created.
kamochek.

kamochek.

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2014-06-20 17:40:50

Searching for English accents on youtube will give you a lot of samples. Have you tried that, to start?

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2014-06-20 17:49:36

Well it's a bit difficult to say which accent games are createe if the game is self voiced you'll here the accent, while if it's a textual game you will obviously hear it with what voice you have set for your screen reader.

It is sometimes possible to tell a dialect or style of accent from a persons' word choice and written grammar, and indeed sinse I for example being English prefer an English synthesisser, which makes say a typically American phrase such as "I'll be right here" sound rather weerd.

Btw, there is no such thing as a British English accent. Remember Britain is made up of four countries, England, Ireland Scotland and wales, and each has their own accent as well as a lot of variations in Local dialects. What most people mean when they say "A british accent" is what is commonly called Queen's English or Oxford english, which is sort of the way I speak myself (listen to my smugglers 5 review if you want to hear my natural speaking voice), however if you heard the jordies up here in the northeast speak you might think you were in a different country! :d.

It's actually quite amazing how different people's accents in the Uk  vary so much across such a small area, you can literally go 50 miles and find people speaking very differently, indeed I believe varients in English dialect is probably wider in Britain than it is in some other countries like America or Australia, at least based on the americans and Australians I've heard speak though i could be wrong on this as I haven't traveled completely across either of those countries to hear local accent variations.

If you have access to an Iphone you can change the dialect of your phone to several varients of English, south african, American, australian for example, that might be a good way to hear a few different accents, though that has only some of the major varients on it and none of the more specific dialects.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2014-06-20 18:44:38

hi.
and which british english my sinthesiser is?
i using daniel.
and dark, where is your revew of smugglers 5? to heare your accent?
kamochek.

kamochek.

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2014-06-20 19:15:19

Hi.

Scansoft Daniel is very much the standard Queen's english, actually he sounds rather like a news announcer on the bbc big_smile.  that is why Daniel is also my voice of choice sinse he  tends to work well with my grammar and the way I write much as I'd speak.

As for my podcast on smugglers 5 go and look in general game discussion and you'll find the link there.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2014-06-20 22:27:11

Daniel's all right, very compatible with me too, when I can understand him (usually on smaller speakers, like the iPhone). People say that my accent is "Very neutral", as it so often is with people who have been brought up in the UK from some other descent and learned the language in a more formal fashion.

For an amusing panoply of English accents, there's the set in eSpeak.

I personally wouldn't describe non-British dialects of English as such, but that's just my opinion. Americans, for example, speak American, with those delightful expressions of theirs. smile

Just myself, as usual.

2014-06-21 00:03:42

@sebby: That is offensive and bigoted nonsense. Do East Indians speak Indian then, not Indian English?  And I guess Koreans always speak Korean, even when they're actually speaking Korean English (IE words like handphone, and expressions like "fighting!" etc).  The idea that American and Australian are languages is so obviously stupid I think I can safely ignore it without comment. Living in Canada will make you aware that hundreds of thousands of English dialects exist, as it has become kind of an international language, and the number based on or even remotely related to British English are the vast minority.  Most are based off of various pigeons, American English via missionaries and the media, the influences of other Latin descended languages, or second-hand teaching (an ESL Pakistani teachers teaching English, for example). Please try and keep your linguistic racism out of an otherwise useful discussion, and remember that dialect is a real word, with a real meaning, that you don't get to redefine just because you hate foreigners speaking your precious language. 

@dark: Until recently, whenever North Americans referred to British English, we almost always meant RP. While we were vaguely aware of the other accents, they were always Yorkshire, or Welsh, or whatever, and British English always had that one clear meaning. However, with the recent popularity of things like Dr Who, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, etc, this has started to change. Also, the BBC has relaxed significantly about the kind of accents it allows over the World Service in the last 10 years or so, so the perception that British English is the primary accent in the UK is starting to fade away.  Interestingly, there are 5 different Canadian English accents, and you will hear none of them on the CBC.  We could stand to take a page out of the BBC's book and chill out a little, I think.

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2014-06-21 00:13:41 (edited by Sebby 2014-06-21 00:20:11)

@fastfinge: make that a controversial opinion. smile

Are you American, by any chance? It is also my opinion that Americans often miss sarcasm. smile

No, I generally describe most dialects as simply dialects of English. American seems to be the exception. Most Americans seem to intuitively realise this; sometimes they occasionally) even forget that "International" English originated in England, rather than "U.S." English, which of course didn't.

Edit: please look up the meaning of the words "Racism" and "Dialect". You will also be pleased to learn that I'm not sufficiently patriotic to be defending English on purely national grounds; in fact, I think it's a fairly horrible language, as it goes. I'd suggest usage of the OED, but feel free to use M&W if it's closer to home.

Just myself, as usual.

2014-06-21 00:32:15 (edited by fastfinge 2014-06-21 00:45:49)

@Sebby: No, I'm Canadian. But never the less, your linguistic elitism is not grounded in any kind of linguistic or scientific reality, and quite frankly utterly inappropriate for discussion here.  I agree that English isn't a particularly good language. But it is an international one.  Attempts to assert any kind of national claim on modern English are unwelcome and incorrect.  And I use the Canadian OED, because that is a thing that exists no matter how you feel about it, and my uses of the words dialect, racism, and bigot are entirely correct.  You don't get to declare that American is a different language just because you dislike Americans, and that is exactly what you are trying to do.  It is as wrong, and as inappropriate, as saying Australians speak Australian, South Africans speak African, and Indians speak Indian.  And saying it is a controversial opinion does not buy you a get out of jail free card.  Try telling a group of feminists that it is your controversial opinion that men are smarter than women, and women should work exclusively in the home, and see how far that gets you.  There are some opinions that nobody in modern society should hold, and if you do hold them, they should never be expressed in a public forum.

Edit:
Dialect: A subordinate variety of a language with non-standard vocabulary, pronunciation, or grammar.
If I were defining it, I would remove the word subordinate, because it smacks of British imperial arrogance. But never the less, American English is a dialect.

Racism: A belief in the superiority of a particular race.
You will note that I used the phrase linguistic racism in my original post, and that is exactly what you are demonstrating.

Bigot: a person intolerant of another's beliefs, race, politics, etc.
What I am saddened to discover you, in fact, are, towards dialects of English not your own.

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2014-06-21 01:20:23

fastfinge wrote:

@Sebby: No, I'm Canadian. But never the less, your linguistic elitism is not grounded in any kind of linguistic or scientific reality, and quite frankly utterly inappropriate for discussion here.

Then it is opinion. And your claim, equally, is opinion, that holds equal weight. We'll have to agree to disagree, I'm afraid.

I agree that English isn't a particularly good language. But it is an international one.  Attempts to assert any kind of national claim on modern English are unwelcome and incorrect.

When I am communicating about every dialect of English that is spoken and recognised worldwide, I speak of English. When I refer to a dialect of English, I refer to it as, for example, Australian English or South African English. I really can't understand why anyone would object to making that distinction. They are varieties of English that originated in their particular regions and should be respected as idiosyncratic of those regions. I think US English is sufficiently weird that I jokingly call it "American", and I only use the term "British English" when referring to the especially well-known varieties like RP/academic/royal (I usually single out local variations, like northern, Irish, Welsh, etc). I am, as I said, quite reluctant to refer to all English, except when speaking about all English, simply as English. If we disagree, then it will have to be on equal terms.

And I use the Canadian OED, because that is a thing that exists no matter how you feel about it, and my uses of the words dialect, racism, and bigot are entirely correct.

"Bigot", quite probably. (Note: the immediately preceding sentence is meant to be humour. You spell "Humour" with a u, BTW.) The other two, I'm not so sure. Either we don't have the same book, or you're extraordinarily sensitive. I am not (and would not) attack anyone based on race, and a dialect is a peculiarity of a language. What I think you're saying is that you think I'm excluding a group of people based on their choice of language, but I'm not. It's also not racism. Again though, I prefer to identify dialects as such.

And I'm pleased to hear that you use the OED. I think it's ponderous and pedantic, but it's an excellent dictionary.

You don't get to declare that American is a different language just because you dislike Americans, and that is exactly what you are trying to do.

Did I say I disliked Americans? I find it irritating, for sure, and it always infuriates me when American English creeps into formal contexts. It's "Based on", not "Based off of", for goodness' sake. But it is a language that people use, so I don't hate people for it.

It is as wrong, and as inappropriate, as saying Australians speak Australian, South Africans speak African, and Indians speak Indian.

The mitigating factor is that the term "US English" is essentially redundant; English is the US's primary language. In other cases, especially for colonial regions, there is the danger of some implied racial prejudice, which of course there isn't in my comments. Also, yes, American English is particularly annoying sometimes; I reserve the right to make fun of it whenever I please.

And saying it is a controversial opinion does not buy you a get out of jail free card.  Try telling a group of feminists that it is your controversial opinion that men are smarter than women, and women should work exclusively in the home, and see how far that gets you.  There are some opinions that nobody in modern society should hold, and if you do hold them, they should never be expressed in a public forum.

It's nice to see that you care about equality, but I'm afraid I can't understand the source of your offence. I think you need to start with the expectation that people are good. You also need to realise that some opinions will not be agreeable to you, and calling them "Offensive" or shunning the person for them without a widely accepted standard of ethics to support it is not likely to engender people to your cause.

Just myself, as usual.

2014-06-21 05:33:31 (edited by kamochek 2014-06-21 05:47:56)

hi.
i think also the english of south africa is like the british english, because my english teacher rita, came from south africa, but if listen to her you can think that she is from britan.
so am i write about that the south african english is like british?
and don't forget also, that english accent can be not only english.
for example: did you hared english in russian accent, or hebrew accent?
and a question: david greenwood is from canada as i understood, and in canada is 5 diferent accents.
the games: shades of doom and gma tank commander in which accent of english they are?
and sarah in which accent of english?
and also i in the saloon of grizly gulch, there is a strange accent i think.
i have the game, and in some points of it the game have a strange english accent.
but in which accent this game is?
and maybe you know some of our games with the british accent?
hey dark, if i'm not mistaken, in england there are diferent words for some things than in america.
for example: in america saying: "elevator," and in england saying: "lift."
am i wright?
kamochek.

kamochek.

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2014-06-21 08:11:14

Moderation!

@Fastfinge, I think you have overblown Sebby's comments very much out of context. no where did he say that he thought British english was superior, only that he felt Australian and American English had diversified from the original route language enough to qualify as languages in their own right, rather than being classified as dialects. This is not making a value judgement but a judgement of classification.

Likewise as he said himself, I am fairly certain his joking comment about "american expressions" was exactly that.

Quite ironically for a topic about language some severe linguistic missunderstanding has happened here and if people do not relax on the issue, which I'm fairly sure isn't an issue), I will close the topic.

as regards the question, I myself do not agree with sebby that American and Australian english should qualify as separate languages, sinse while American English particularly has some extreme differences in grammar and structure from British English, I don't think those differences have gone far enough. For example, I remember a polish and Russian friend of mine once trying to converse in their native languages, they both said they understood about half of what the other said, sinse the two languages had a lot of commonalities but also major differences. That would to me be the point when a language is separated, when the speakers of one cannot understand the speakers of another. While some accents can be difficult, in basic word order and grammar I don't think we've got to that level of diversity with English yet.

I personally prefer the term Rp or Oxford English to "british English" sinse as Fastfinge said British English has so many regional variations. I will also say that for Britain at least I do find there are regional accents which are literally painful to listen to, due to the fact that the voice becomes extremely clipped and harsh, word order and sentence structure goes out the window, and often those accents involve major lack of presition in speech, for example in nottingham where my parents live the standard method of pronunciation is to miss t's and h's of words, so a word like it can sound like ih. Vowls also tend to be very nasal and rather harsh, indeed the Nottingham accent is sort of the combination of the worst parts of a yorkshire and Bermingham. this is one reason I myself have a very precise method of speaking, sinse when I was 17 I systematically decided to change my accent and set about destroying all traces of it from the way I spoke. Now the only relic of that is my occasional short A, and even that is falling off as I do more singing since singing requires very precise pronunciations that go along with rp.

As regards other accents, I actually really like the Jordy one up here in the Northeast, albeit it takes some getting used to understanding if your not familiar with it. I also really like listening to south African accents sinse I find the deepness of the voul sounds very appealing.

@Camochek, no, South African is not the same as the standard Oxford English accent, As I said they tend to have a deeper vocal tone to the vouls which actually has an extremely nice sound (or at least I find it that way).

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2014-06-21 10:17:08

@Dark: Well, you hit the mail on the head; I really, really care about syntax. This bit about everything being fine as long as the message gets across just doesn't do it for me. big_smile

I do accept that there is a substrate of English that might be called "International English"--that's the English we use at international conferences--where everybody essentially pledges not to make use of any local colloquialisms, that I would certainly regard as English in its own right.  In that case, of course, many concessions are made, but we all agree that the compromises are all worthwhile. It is of course very tempting to add local culture to the mix, but it's forbidden by popular decree, producing a very strange sense of group submission. I think that's when you realise how valuable English is as a communication tool for purely technical purposes.

I do wonder though whether you'd consider Geordie a separate language, by your own rules? smile

Just myself, as usual.

2014-06-21 10:47:41

The reason I stated Geordy was hard to understand was because of the accent, which in the center of newcastle can get quite extreme. If you read anything a Geordy wrote it'd look the same sinse the grammar and syntax is fairly identical, it's just the accent that makes a major difference.

There are grammatical and syntactic differences in local accents, but not usually enough to make them incomprehensible. For example a Geordy expression meaning going to the city would be "going downtown" but would be pronounced more like "goon doon tooowan"" and often ending with the word  "like" although usually pronounced with a long I so that it sounds like lake.

The phrase "going down town" itself however is quite understandable, and it's only in fact when I try to write it idiomatically that you even get the idea.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2014-06-21 11:01:12

OK, got it. I once tried to "Learn" it, and got as far as "Didn't drop yer diddle on the proggy mat" before I gave up. smile

Just myself, as usual.

2014-06-21 11:50:02

Actually that is something of a stage Geordi phrase, I've never heard anyone say it. Ya dina is fairly common, but that just refers to whatever meal you might have, for example if you were waiting in a restaurant the waiter might say "got ya dinna" when your food was ready.

I did however earlier this year have a very surreal experience in London, encountering a cocney taxi driver who actually used the phrase "lovely juvly" big_smile. I actually pointed this out to him and we had a good laugh while he spouted a hole bunch of cocneyisms streight out of hollywood.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2014-06-21 13:22:58

Yeah, I'm quite a fan of The Bradshaws and have picked up some northernisms myself. smile

Of course the opposite is true, people out there still try and do Cockney rhyming slang which is always a good laugh in 2014. smile

Just myself, as usual.

2014-06-21 14:16:39

My dad, who's family originaly came from Norfolk, apparently used to have an uncle who used Cockney rhyming slanng, though sinse my dad is now in his sixtiess that would've been a fair while ago.

Interestingly enough as far as northern English accents go, Yorkshire is one of the few I can do absolutely reliably (I just need to run through a bit of Stanley holloway to get me in the right frame of mind). i once played a Yorkshire doctor on stage in a small commic opera skit. It was quite good fun, especially sinse I got poisoned and got to yell "Eee by gum!" and then keal over dead big_smile.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2014-06-21 14:50:24

hi.
what is a cokney and what funny with it?
kamochek.

kamochek.

Thumbs up

2014-06-21 15:05:18

Hi,

I heard Australian and British they speak English sound a bit same...
smile
When I listen and compare these two languages, they sound a bit confusing.

2014-06-21 16:23:04

@sebby: Everything *is* fine, as long as the message gets across.  Anything else is unnecessary elitism, and is used exclusively to disadvantage those of a different culture or socioeconomic status from yourself.  So long as the message is understood, bigotry is the only possible reason to enforce any false ideal of so-called correct English.  It can sometimes be OK to have a laugh, for example at Spammers who aren't attempting to communicate within the rules of the social contract, or at large companies who could have hired better translation talent, but that's as far as it can ever be allowed to go. Anything else is just class or race related bullying.  I will feel free to continue to shun those who participate in this unacceptable type of activity.  Mocking speakers of American English is no different from mocking those with a different skin colour.  If dark feels I need a ban for this uncompromising stance, he can feel free to go ahead; I have no intention of sitting down and keeping my mouth shut. As someone who has no difficulty writing in so-called standard English syntax, it's even more important to me that I not permit myself to be lumped in with this nonsense.  I find it extremely telling that Dark found it necessary to go to what sounds like a lot of effort, just to change his accent, apparently in order to avoid exactly the kind of bigotry I'm up in arms about.  Also, I have no idea if you were joking, and I don't really care. The important thing about a joke is that it should be funny, and all of your messages were exactly the opposite.  You are also continuing to express the extremely objectionable point of view that anything Sebby has difficulty understanding (like Geordy) or anything Sebby doesn't like (like US English) must be a different language.  The fact that you are willing to admit that you dislike US English in formal settings makes it quite clear that you find that type of English, and thus that class of people, to be inferior. I don't expect I can change your opinions, so all I can do is publicly voice my dislike of them, in hopes of reminding the lurkers that yours is a minority opinion that is unacceptable in wider society.

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2014-06-21 17:03:16 (edited by fastfinge 2014-06-21 17:15:53)

@kamochek: I don't have any of the GMA games, and I don't know if it's David Greenwood himself who does the voiceovers, so I'm afraid I couldn't answer that question.  The interviewer in this video is using what I would consider a pretty standard Canadian accent:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3d1_5SV_oO4
that is the accent commonly found in southern Ontario, near our boarder with the United States.  That's why it sounds quite similar to a midwestern American accent.  I call this standard because over half of our population lives in this area of the country.  The first man who is interviewed has a European accent that I cannot identify, and the second man has the same southern Ontario accent.  Almost everyone on CBC, our international broadcaster, shares this type of accent.

This is a good example of another Canadian accent, from the Ottawa Valley area, still in Ontario, but not as close to the United States:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6IpR9Xp1NQ
you will notice especially that she says several vowels quite differently from a Southern Ontario accent. 

The man in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nu80PNeTwmc
has a strong French Canadian accent.  If I had to guess, I would say that the woman is probably from Halifax, but that is just a guess. 

This is a good example of what people from Newfoundland actually sound like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6kVqy9wAOQ
If you hear an actress on TV playing someone from Newfoundland, the accent will sound much, much stronger. But everyone I know from Newfoundland sounds more like this girl than the people in movies. On TV, they make it sound almost Irish, when in reality, it doesn't.  But I have never actually visited Newfoundland, so take that with a grain of salt. 

And this is a Prince Edward Island accent:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyUWDwVyJFM
yeah, it's a short video, but all the other PEI accents I could find didn't sound right, to me.  And yes, I have been there.

I'm sure there are some Canadian accents I'm missing, so if you have any questions about other spots, let me know.

Edit to add: now I'm going through all these accent videos on youtube. This woman shares my accent exactly:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QET4pQr1dYg
Yay! Now I don't have to record one! We're identical, right down to calling the TV thing a converter. Though I call the things that work with consoles controllers, the thing for the TV a converter, and the thing for the amplifier and everything else a remote. Then I get frustrated when I ask someone to pass me the remote, and they hand me the converter.  LOL

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2014-06-21 17:24:05

Moderation!

For the love of pete Fastfinge, get down off your high horse and stop preaching, indeed this is an official warning, if you don't stop taking such major objection to innocent opinions and seeing racism and fashism lirking in every shadow I will indeed give you a temporary ban, sinse frankly long and bitter rants from you in response to what you believe others views to be rather than what they are are not appreciated.

I suggest if you want to actually exchange opinions with others and have real conversations, you learn to listen to what other people are saying and what people's motivations are rather than constantly believing everyone is out to get you.

Btw, I will also add that there was a very good reason I systematically went about changing my accent which had nothing to do with elitism, (indeed my parents still speak with nottingham accents), but which I will not discuss here.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2014-06-21 17:55:07

hi.
and maybe i can listen to british and australian and south african english?
kamochek.

kamochek.

Thumbs up

2014-06-21 18:16:06

@dark: To engage in a discussion of a set of opinions legitimizes them, and that is not something I am willing to do with any opinion or set of opinions that promotes, or seems to promote, inequality of any kind.  Though I am Canadian, and we do have extremely strong hate speech laws, and have in the past used them to ban Dr Laura and Howard Stern. I have previously found myself set flat-footed by the largely American idea of free speech. I have never had someone successfully explain to me how, and why, speech that promotes inequality can be also promoting freedom.  It still sounds like double-think to me. If someone wants to take a crack at that one though, start another thread, or even better send me an e-mail (not a PM because I expect to be banned after this message), because that's way off topic. I'm just trying to give a bit of insight into my background. And as someone who isn't American, I am not personally targeted by this particular unpleasantness. But my personal code of ethics doesn't let me pass on standing against what I believe to be wrong, just because it isn't affecting me, this time.  And I used the word apparently in discussing your change of accent, precisely because I was unsure of your exact motivation, and was going by what seemed apparent, to me. I do know many people who have switched accents for that reason, but you're not one of them. Fair enough.  Your idea that opinions are, or can be, Innocent, is not something that I understand even slightly.  I mean, what on earth is a guilty opinion? Everyone has opinions and convictions, and everyone, including myself, must be held to account for the opinions they express.  I fully admit to having absolutely no idea what you are trying to say, there. My best guess is that you believe that people can have whatever opinion they would like, but if...somehow...the opinion is found Innocent, they shouldn't be judged for that opinion?  What determines if an opinion is Innocent or not? Or do you mean that if you're not an expert in the subject matter, your opinion is Innocent, because you don't have the knowledge to be judged for it? If that's what you mean, why should anyone be allowed to express an Innocent opinion, if they can't back it up with either knowledge or personal experience? I suspect that our mental geographies might be far, far too alien from one another to make any headway at all, there, so again, you might want to take that to another thread, or better, an email, or probably best, just not bother. 

Anyway, it's been a fun and interesting 4 years, everyone!  When I get banned, I do not expect to ever be back, as I suspect that my convictions are different enough from Dark's that we will never be able to achieve any common ground here.  For anyone who wants it, my email address is [email protected].  I can't really be found on any other public forums, as I find the vast majority of them just aren't worth my time, due to unfair moderation, or unintelligent people.  Lastly, I'm not blaming Dark for banning me. I am posting, in full knowledge of what the results will be, as my personal ethics require. I expect that Dark will also follow his own personal convictions and ethics, and ban me for it. That's how the world works.

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