My other problem with linux is that whenever someone explains how to do something on linux even down to installing  programs it always sounds amazingly complicated as if your pretty much writing your own operating system, or at heast having to peace one together from a  hole load of  rather mysterious elements.

For example, what is all this flavors business? and what is a shell?

It just seems whenever people talk about Linux what they say is totally mysterious, you don't just install and run things. Also I can't just walk into a shop or a computer association and say "hay, can I try linux" since  for a start it seems you need to do all the setup yourself, and secondly there seem so many whacky alternatives with  versions of nome and other things that I couldn't guarantee what I was trying  would compare to what I was getting in the end.

It just seems Linux you need to  do a huge amount of research and be a pretty  advanced computer user to begin with to even know what your doing with the thing, and personally I do confess I'm not all that interested in how! my computer works, just that it does.

I appreciate the open source elements of Linux, but I do wishh the thing was a bit more straight forward and understandable, and that there were options to try it out first, and  be sure what I was getting.

Regarding using my current pc, well I was at least thinking of a new os on another machine if I decide to actually get one, probably a higher spec machine to what I have now, that would be one of the advantages of a new os, though i do confess I'm struggling to see advantages even in mac at the moment, since why should I swich to an os where I need to use a virtual machine to run all my old software and learn a new interface? What bennifit does it give me?

I've asked this before, but while people have mentioned different things about windows 7 and a couple about mac I haven't found anything really majorly convincing yet, since if I've got so much shenanigans to run all my old games with virtual machines and learning a new interface and so on, I want something that actually will give me something new to do in return, the way the Iphone did. As it stands while Mac, upgraded windows or possibly Linux certainly has alternatives for the various things I do with a pc, none of them seem better! than what I have, which is what I want from a new os.

This is why I suspect I'll stick with xp until a really major change like touch screen  control is added to mac or windows with accompanying development in games and such, or perhaps in five or so years when there are compatibility issues with  newer  software or web pages.

I'd actually prefer myself to have something new and good for changing os, rather than being forced to, indeed that's another reason I'm so annoyed at microsoft, since it seems forcing is just what they're doing with not  supporting drivers for newer hardware, and offering very little actual bennifit to end users of windows 7 or 8 over xp.

If windows 7 were indeed compatible with everything I ran I'd actually considder upgrading anyway and just  coping with the interface, but as we know thanks to this 64 bit issue and microsoft dropping support for all of the stuff like vb they ran in xp this isn't the case, and yes, there is a possibility of using a virtual machine, but if I'm doing that what do I get out of the new os anyway other than the extra  headache of running a virtual michine?

As I said this is likely to work itself out, and I actually would love to see a new os with all new games, control, and lots of fun things that I can't do on xp at the moment, that! would be a great reason to upgrade, heck, I've already mostly retired my laptop as a travel instrument in deference to my iphone, and now only use one as a static computer when i'm at my parents, though of course that only affects the portable device aspect of computer use.

Well sebby I actually have! tried windows 7, which is why i can be so determined on dislike for the  interface, I've also had a brief look at windows 8 though not investigated it in as much detail.

I would like to try a mac out of curiosit curiosity, and it's absolutely certain that whatever system I use I'll get used to it eventually, but really i'm just pissed off with having to bugger about as you put it for what is apparently no good reason but because microsoft are too scummy to maintain decent compatibility or  write a propper interface.

My problem however is that if I must! do so much messing about with virtual machines etc, I want a good reason to do that. Would the mac or windows 8 give me loads of new and different  games to play? Would I get a program that did anything for media playback winamp can't? ditto with power dvd? 

This is really my issue with the hole upgrade thing. I'm quite happy! with what I'm doing already, so I want something better to compensate me. Xp laptop vs Iphone, I got that very clearly.

I lose being able to have  my  xp games on the go, and use things like winamp or a convenint net browser on a station platform, I gain things Like Kodp, and various other useful applications and functions.

Yes, it took some getting used to, and there are some things I've lost out on, but it was worth it on the hole.

The desktop question just doesn't seem to work that way, or at least it doesn't at the moment, though as I said I very much hope this situation will change in the future since I'd much rather upgrade because I'm getting something better than just because  someone forces me to.

Chris, all newer versions of Gnome come with the Orca screen reader installed. It is a core component of the Gnome desktop, and has been so for two or three years. The question is not if Gnome comes with Orca but if your distribution comes with Gnome and Orca. Some do and some don't.

It is totally possible to install Linux using the Orca screen reader. Some distributions such as Vinux and Sonar have the installer configured to bring up Orca as soon as the install disc is booted. Others like Ubuntu can bring up the talking installer with a hot key.

To load Orca it depends on the distribution in question, but the most Command way to load Orca is to press alt+f2 for the run dialog, type Orca, and press enter. On Vinux press alt+control+o to load Orca. I believe on Ubuntu 13.1-0 the command is super+alt+s to launch Orca. In any case once you decide on a Linux distribution and version finding out how to launch Orca a is pretty easy.

Dark, not sure where you have gotten your information, but installing programs on Linux is extremely simple. Especially, on the Ubuntu based distributions. Here is a classic example of installing something from Software Center.

Let's assume I want to install the Banshee media player for playing music, listening to podcasts, and a million other things the media player can do. I'll first open up Ubuntu Software Center, and then tab to the Sound and Video link. Next I will tab into the tree view of available applications and down arrow to Banshee. I'll hit enter on Banshee and it will bring up a dialog box which allows me to add, remove, or modify the program. In this case I want to install the program so I will check the various check boxes for Banshee and all the plugins I want and tab to the install button. It will prompt me for my admin password, I will type it in, and press enter on the authenticate button. Bingo, after that it will download and install the program. Nothing complicated about it.

Now, of course I could have done that from the command line which would be faster, but requires a bit of more skill with the command line tools. I could have simplified that process by opening Gnome Terminal and typing something like
sudo apt-get install banshee
which would be quicker, but is not necessary if you want to do the install via the graphical user interface.

As far as flavors the word is distributions. All that means in plan English is there are different brands of Linux. In the Windows world there is only one brand of Windows, Microsoft, and regardless of what version you have XP, Windows 7, Windows 8, you are only dealing with on developer. Same goes with Mac OS X. There is only one brand of Mac OS X brands and it is Apple. In the Linux world there are literally a couple hundred different each of them have a different end user experience, come with different software bundles, different desktops, whatever. While that may seem overwhelming to you at first its actually not as complicated as it first sounds.

To begin with there are only a small handful of Linux distributions that include accessibility as a core component of the operating system. Ubuntu, Arch, Debian, and Fedora are some of the mainstream distributions that come with Orca etc. There are also some custom versions or brands such as Vinux and Sonar which are very good for a blind user just getting started.

As to your question about a shell its very simple. A shell is the command line environment used by the operating system. Most distributions or brands of Linux come with a command line environment or shell called Bash. However, that is unimportant at the moment because most things can be done from the graphical user interface be it Gnome, Unity, KDE, etc so using the shell is there if you want to do some advanced stuff but isn't necessary for a newby to know or use.

As far as trying Linux it is not necessary to walk into a computer shop or computer association to try it. Linux is free and all you have to do is download the disc image, burn it to a disc, and boot the disc. Many distributions such as Ubuntu, Sonar, and Vinux for instance can be run right off the CD or DVD which means you don't even have to install it to use it. So if you want to try Linux all you need is a DVD burner and a free disc image, and you are in business.

As to your point about too many wacky versions etc, not being straight forward, again this comes down to simple ignorance of what is out there. If you know someone who is themselves a Linux user, me for example, you don't need to do a lot of research etc to get up[ and running. As I said there are a few distributions such as Sonar especially made for the blind, and I would say that would be the best place to start learning Linux. After that you could change distributions or trial others to compare them and do more research once you knew more about what you were doing and looking for. However, it is nowhere as complicated and confusing as you are making it sound.

As for options to try it out first already covered. There are a number of ways to try Linux, but the most straight forward way is to download the DVD image, burn it, and try it right off the DVD. There are other ways such as booting it from a flash drive, installing Linux side by side with Linux, using VMWare, etc. However, using the CD/DVD image is the easiest way to get started.

As to your conundrum of upgrading verses getting a new operating system I have to honestly say there is no answers for your particular problem. What you really want is a newer updated version of XP which obviously does not exist. No matter what you choose it will come with pros and cons, and someone like myself can't make that decision for you since the value of upgrading or changing operating systems is entirely subjective.
I understand you want something better than you have, to get something that improves upon the things you currently do, and to be honest that is not going to happen. All of the operating systems are pretty much equal in terms of browsing the web, reading/writing e-mails, playing music, composing office type documents, etc. It is a bit different from operating system to operating system and while it doesn't give you any major advantages upgrading or changing operating systems doesn't necessarily offer any serious disadvantages either. So I think you will have to look at different reasons to upgrade or switch.

For example, the cost of the operating system is one such thing to consider. Linux of course is free, but Mac OS with VoiceOver is also very affordable. Once you pay the high cost for the Mac upgrading it is a lot less than Windows in the long run because you save the cost on the operating system, screen reader, and other apps too. There are plenty of free apps for Mac so it is worth considering in terms of cost of ownership for the long term.

Another reason is security. I know you have not been too concerned about this issue, but it is extremely important. XP is a high security risk, especially with the new wave of ransom software attacks, and I think you would be better served with getting something more up to date and a bit more secure. It might not do all you want but I see it as better being safe than sorry. However, that is just my point of view.

I myself had some accessibility concerns with sonar, and ubuntu. Mostly, my concerns were with crashing orca, and it not playing nice with firefox all that often. I think these are just general bugs that could be ironed out over time, but personally i didn't feel like waiting for some random update. I'd rather stick with windows until it becomes inaccessible or similar, which i don't think will be a problem for a while, if ever.

Well thanks for the explanation tom. This is really the problem with  linux with so many distributions and ways of talking about them they do become rather impenitrable.

the problem however generally is whatever system I choose to upgrade to, i'll have to run xp in a virtual machine for all my older programs and spend time getting used to a new interface, (and in the case of windows 7 at least a rather inferior one for coherence). I'm quite prepared to do both, but only for a good reason, and I haven't had that good reason yet, indeed I'm quite amazed that all these developers have been working on so called "upgrades" for years and haven't! come up with anything that would actually help me do what I do better.

If microsoft offered full compatibility with older programs I'd upgrade straight off, however dos programs don't work at all, and anything with vb seems to be extremely buggy, and is getting more so on windows 8.

that is really the issue, that whatever upgrade option I choose it'll be less convenient for no real bennifit. That is why I never onsiddered say buying an xp laptop to be used off the internet just for compatibility with old software and some sort of newer machine, ---- since at the moment I'm not sure why I would want to use any newer os for what I use a computer for rather than the xp machine.

Of course bennifit could come, as it did on the iphone in terms of games and other applications to run that I couldn't on xp, but again this hasn't happened so far.

Security is an issue, albeit one I'm not paranoid over. I will however disable automatic updates entirely after this january, and talk to avg about suggestions to reduce risk. I also believe avg 2014 is less heavy on system resources, so that would help as well.

As to vista, well with all the bugs, compatibility issues etc, while the interface might work I'd still be having lots of hassle so that doesn't seem as good an option either.

I'm actually amazed microsoft doesn't! create an updated xp, given that  there are still a large proportion of people who like the system and are still using it, and given the poor reception of most of their newer operating systems, indeed I'm quite surprised that this question even arose. Back when windows 7 first came out I'd have expected! there to be some good reasons to upgrade by now, as there were in 2001 when I upgraded from windows 98 to xp, since I'd already run into various things I couldn't do in 98. Then again Microsoft never were! sensible.

I will say this is where mac does score over windows, since at least Apple don't kick compatibility out with every upgrade, which is why I had no problem upgrading from ios6 to io7 on my phone.

Thank you Thom.
I'm sorry if this has been mentioned before, but what's the difference between Sonar and Vinux? Or where can I read more about Sonar? That reminds me about Sonar, the music composer program, lol.

Like i said in my first post, it's April 8th. No security patches, updates, anything. You can do a google search and find a ton of artecles and pissed people lol.

Well Arq, I'll turn automatic updates off after the 8th of April then, thanks for letting me know, ---- though again this is later than I thought and microsoft really! should take notice of all those pissed off people, .

Does anyone know where I can get XP virtual machines for Vmware player and Virtualbox?

Interesting, though given how little microsoft pays their own workers in China  I can't see them taking too much notice of the country. It's also not surprising the chinese engage in piracy, ---- heck since most of microsoft's hardware components are built in China it seems they are at least part of the problem anyway.

It's not just dos 16 bit applications, for all I do disagree with you that microsoft should spend the money, to import them into this so called superior new hardware (though if it is so superior why doesn't it do anything better).

Ever since  windows vista we've had comments on this forum "whow do I run this game?", "what is happening to vb support?" "so and so runs slowly", "I can't install such and such" etc etc.

The newer versions of windows just seem to cause trouble with the existing corpus of games, particularly with vb6.

Now I'm sure people will say vb isn't being supported by microsoft and so on, but that doesn't help, since the plane fact is there are more things that don't run correctly on windows 7 plus than don't run on Xp. While of course you can run Xp in a virtual machine, well why would I want to run another operating system which will take time to learn if I've got to run xp in a virtual machine anyway?

When a newer  operating system actually is worth the trouble and will let me do something better I can't do on Xp, I'll certainly upgrade and take the virtual machine option, but I just struggle to see the real bennifit. Myself I think this won't happen until touch screen support, since that is a positive, absolutely different change which provides a great deal of bennifit to everyday interface use, as well as games etc which you certainly couldn't get on an older os.

About the tablet thing, well again, this seems part of a modern tendency with interfaces I've seen on everything from Iphone to facebook and in Itunes. Instead of letting you customize what  information is shown through lists, menus, windows etc, the tendency is to chuck everything at a person at once and have it all sprawling out in one huge clump. For a sighted person this probably is a good thing since it's like having everything layed out on a table and a person can visually track the position of all objects. using a conventional screen reader however it's a pain in the arse since it means tracking things like trees, moving ribbons, morphing contextual information etc which doesn't stay logically similar or have an easily memorable position, as well as often getting you lost in a lot of controls and information you don't! want. Of course, they aren't impossible, but as compared to say a basic list form in windows xp they are far less instantly intuative.

This is where touch screens can be a major bennifit since they allow spacial relationships and quick navigation which isn't possible in such a huge mass of stuff using a conventional screen reader with even a comprehensive ability to move around the screen.

of course, this wouldn't matter if interfaces were customizable, but again, customization in interface doesn't seem to be a priority these days anymore than backwards compatibility is, which is again something I blaime microsoft for.

Regarding emulation etc, well frankly yes, I do! expect microsoft to spend thousands on development when it comes to supporting those tools and previous systems such as vb, ms dos etc which have been staples of their own library. Saying "oh use a virtual machine" or "leave it to open source" is frankly lazy, and it's not as if microsoft is a stuggling indi developer with limited time and resources, they're the richest company in the world and thus should theoretically be creating the best product, this is why they can be more readily blamed for not living up to expectations, and especially for trying to force people to buy their cruddy new systems by dropping support for newer hardware, neglecting security etc.

I will say this is one area where Apple score over Microsoft since when they update an os they don't drop everything that ran with the previous ones, ---- about Linux I don't know, though i suspect with so many alternatives backwards compatibility isn't a problem there either.

Now of course, if your a tecky and enjoy playing with computers just for the sake of seeing how they work, it's a different question, and I can appreciate that difference in priorities, though I'm afraid as someone who sees a computer just as a tool for doing various things i'm a little amazed that if all this 64 bit hardware and faster processors and all the rest of it is so much better, why won't it do! anything better.

The differences between  vhs and dvd  are obvious to anyone, ---- indeed even I! can see the improved picture quality with my severe limitations on eyeballs. I don't know about the current generation, but the differences in production and processor quality between 8, 16, 32 and next gen consoles were also pretty obvious, ---- albeit complexity in graphics meant I was myself unable to take advantage of most of these changes, and that from what I've heard from people who follow gaming developments the technological and software progression has somewhat ground to a halt of late.

Given these changes in areas of technology, I find it actually quite surprising that I can't! see any bennifits in other os, and as I said with windows 7 after our last discussion on this subject I did have a good look, (why I'd also very much like to try out a mac, and  intend to when i can).

As it is though at the moment if my pc broke tomorrow I'd buy another Xp machine, (and yes, I do know where to get one in perfect working order).

I have linux, vinux4 on another hard drive. windows7 is on this one and to get linux on I just swap hard drives out and in. But anyway linux whether it be vinux4, ubuntu fedora or sonar 13.10 are all good mac alternatives. but if you set it up right, windows7 also works good and is very very fast.