2007-03-10 22:37:39 (edited by dark empathy 2007-03-10 22:52:29)

Oooopse Jayde! I only chose the class for amusement value. I suppose if I'd actually been thinking seriously I would've chosen something like turtle tamer, ----- in Rpg's I usually go for Clerrics or Paladins, ie, fighters with some extra stuff to fall back on.

Oh well, at least in KoL the witicism of the game will make grinding slightly less tedius.

My character's name is (unsurprisingly), Darkempathy (no space), if you want to message me.

Any hints or advice would certainly be welcome, including any tips about item combos, cooking etc, in fact, sinse KoL is proving to be rather complex in this regard, I'd prefer recieving hints over actual items, sinse I love the discovery factor in games.

Of course, I wouldn't say know to a litle extra meat if you've got some spare, ----- though I am quite happy to grind for this as well.

Parham, I've already said in this topic, the reason I play games is to explore a unique world with it's plot, setting and atmosphere. I can certainly see the attraction off playing a particular character with a particular history, wandering around a world interacting with other characters in as real time and lifelike a way as possible, ----- I believe this is the form of most muds.

In just about all the bad Brouser Rpg's I've tried though, the world is so completely minimal, both in terms of what you can do in it and it's size, true Rping ---- as in role playing, is nearly impossible.

take Logd as an example.

"Greetings friend, I have traveled from a far distant land to try and slay the Green Dragon"

"Oh what a coincidence so have I, ---- so in fact has everyone else here"

"Know you of the whereabouts of the fowl beast's laire?"

"Oh, the Green Dragon won't turn up until you reach level 15"

"I have just survived a life or death struggle with a foul fiend in the forest"

"Oh yes, dying is such a pest, you can't kill anymore monsters for the rest of the day!"

Sorry for the rather sarcastic rendition of Rping there, but you see my point, hardly the most enspiring of game settings, ----- and Logd is actually one of the larger Brouser based games on the net.

then of course, there is the hole issue about players who either don't want to rp, or who can only talk about game mechanics.

I admit, Dark Grimoire comes close to filling some of these gaps, but as I said, i didn't find the combat quite interesting enough, ---- and the game seemed heavily based around combat.

thus far, I find Sryth is the only brouser game that's managed to give me the world and exploration elements i'm looking for, though I do have high expectations of Jayde's game with all that I've heard.

there are probably some great muds with good Rping out there that I'd very much enjoy, but until I can move out of uni I won't be able to try them.

Btw, for something entertaining, single player, though not fantasy, I've recently discovered the Alter ego life simulator this lets you make various choices in a character's life, right from birth onwards, it would be incredibly dull accept for the rather dry humor of some of the writing. I'll admit it's by no means the deepest or most absorbing game on the net, but it's a nice way to kill a few minutes.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2007-03-11 11:46:14

lol dark, there's always people who are idiots about RP. While I'm lighter on the RP front my usual mud, Awakened Worlds, is quite nice because you aren't allowed to discuss what they class as in character information while out of character and vice versa. They actually went to the extent of having an "osay" command for "X says oocly". It's something I appreciate for its aesthetic.

On the other hand the other Shadowrun mud Awake 2062 is quite draconian. They label you as a power gamer if you do the automatically generated "quests" (they call them jobs or runs), and if you happen to kill a police officer or two for some reason the ims are likely to drop a very heavily armed response team on you and kill you flat out because it's realistic.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2007-03-11 19:12:49

Told you. Everything is good as long as it is enough. It's just ridiculous to do what CX2 said, but on the other hand, everything to some extent. Actually Jade, there are very very very few, in fact, the number of my fingers, of that browser-based games that you said, that well, somehow, have succeeded, but still, it's not that much of a thing. And, I just gave you an example; I was not actually comparing anything with anything. You can, as Dark said, compare a mud with Legend Of The Green Dragon and such.

2007-03-11 22:30:11

Well cx2, from what I know about the shaddowrun setting,---- mostly stuff my brother has told me (he's both Gm'd and played in games), I can see the point of incouraging realism, sinse the system seemed to lend itself fairly well to teams of players (or shaddowruners) cooperating to carry out the various jobs.

I could probably go for something like that myself, provided that the other players were reasonable of course.

As I've already said, the amount of bad browser games is very disheartening. I've actually vaguely considdered learning Java or Php simply to create something reasonable, ----- though at the moment with both my Phd and various commitments on stage, I don't exactly have an abundence of free time or energy to devote to something like that.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2007-03-12 06:27:44

There are dozens of browser-based RPGs, but some of 'em are ripoffs of others and others aren't very good.
There are also very likely a lot of cruddy MUDs.
I won't go so far as to say that the ratio of good-to-bad MUDs is equal to the ratio of good-to-bad browser-based RPGs, but I bet you it's fairly similar, at least.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

2007-03-12 12:03:53 (edited by dark empathy 2007-03-12 12:05:43)

Hmmm, I'm not precisely sure whether the huge amount of bad Brouser games stems from the fact that their relatively easy to program, or to rip off others' programming, but difficult to design or write decently, or from the fact that there just are! some very sad and pathetic people who's idea of Character developement is just to increase a couple of numbers.

Sinse I try to maintain an optimistic belief in the creative potential of humanity, i hope it's primarily the former, but I'm not sure ----- even in tabletop Rp circles rules Loyers and stat crunching can be fairly common I think.

I wonder if such people actually started role playing by mistake, ---- maybe when they heard about dice role play, they thought it meant Dice role!!!!!! play?

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2007-03-12 12:38:52 (edited by cx2 2007-03-12 12:40:57)

Dark, the more draconian mud was really over the top. Like I said there are automatically dispensed jobs, and they label you a power gamer for doing more than a couple of them. They even discussed on the forums removing them altogether, so all you could do was wander around talking to people and take part in occasional staff-run jobs. Realism is great, but you have to take advantage of the medium and Awakened Worlds is by contrast RP optional but with a strong RP community still. If you want to go kill a random mob because you feel like venting some frustration, or to test out some new equipment, you can.

For example one of the immortals on Awakened Worlds ran a police raid on a particularly frequented club. This was a one off thing, and no real long term consequences for the characters occured. On the other hand I believe the other mud wouldn't be beyond permanantly killing off a character just for killing a few mobs, which in a mud is not good. This is especially so when you consider that the player might have put serious work into the character. I'm all for there being consequences in Shadowrun, but mostly in the pen and paper. Doing the equivalent of automatically killing someone just for taking a shot at a police officer is harsh, and as I understand it these mobs were tough to the point of being almost unbeatable. I wouldn't be complaining if a couple squad cars showed up, we're talking a team that could threaten well armed and trained commandos and that just isn't fun.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2007-03-12 17:23:56

I must admit Cx2, Mobs is one acronym I've not come across, ----- though from the context I believe I know what you mean.

the Shaddowrun mud you mention does indeed sound a litle harsh given the medium. In a tabletop Rp game it's the Gm's job to give the players oppertunities for advancement so that they can play through the plot that the Gm's devised, ---- -I believe this was the original purpose of random encounter tables in Ad&d, though I did once play a game with a Gm who used them to excess.

It strikes me though, that any game which has a variety of quests the player can undertake, ---- quests of various difficulties, needs some way for the player to wander off and do a bit of grinding, not to mention that as I said, atmospheric combat can be pretty good fun on it's own occasionally too.

Then of course, there's the hole item acquisition thing ----- I'm just having fun with that in KoL myself. While I wouldn't want to do it for an entire game, it's sometimes rather nice to actually have to go and search for an item in various locations, pounding skulls until you get it.

and the policy on solo jobs does indeed seem rather extreme, ----- can't you just play a natural Loner?

Like many other things though, it's all a question of balance I believe.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2007-03-12 20:23:06

Just so you know mob is short for mobile object, sorry to confuse. It is anything from a shopkeeper to town guards or monsters.

And in case I confused you further both shadowrun muds I mentioned come from the same codebase called Awake, but diverged a while back so there are differences. As well as being less draconian I find Awakened Worlds has set up far more features including working PDA's and the ability to actually transport drones in a van.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2007-03-12 22:41:04

Ah Cx2, that makes more sense. I did have to think a litle about mobs, in a war torn gone to hel urban jungle, I'd imagine that killing mobs wouldn't be such a bad thing, ------ of course dispersing them rather than disposing of them might be a more humane alternative, but you can't have everything ;D.

Seriously, I'm not sure about random shop keeper murder, ---- but I suppose it's all free form, and as i remember the Shaddowrun world is fairly loreless anyway.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2007-03-12 22:43:40 (edited by cx2 2007-03-12 22:45:52)

lol. Actually in some muds, including the Shadowrun ones, shopkeepers are not killable. Imagine going to a shop for some ammo to find that the guy has been killed, again. Then again Alter Aeon does allow the killing of shopkeepers, if you can survive the guards that appear when you try. I saw a guy once trying to kill the keeper in the newbie "mud school" area and it was a downright massacre, not in favour of the player who was silly enough to try.

And it's less that it's a lawless setting, just that how much law there is depends on how much money the victim and offender possess wink

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2007-03-13 18:52:49

Hmmm as a matter of deffinition, I've always thought "loreless" applied to highly corrupt, protection rackit style situations as well.

I can see the point of having unkillable shopkeepers in games, ---- particularly in Newby areas, though I suppose from a setting point of view killing them does allow the players freedome to be random psychos if they so desire.

Talking of combat, how does experience work in most muds? It's always struck me that if you allow random killing in a fairly free environment, and the experience system is purely combat or item use based, things can get a litle silly where npcs ---- particularly non-hostile npcs are concerned.

the worst story I heard of this was about the Ad&d system applied to Starwars. I know that in many Starwars systems Jedi are super powerful, but have to be careful not to do too many dark side related activities, ---- so for example, while they're strong enough to shred anything in combat, they always have to specifically targit things in a non-fatal way ---- like chopping hands off Obi-wan style.

but in the Ad&D system, apparently they just accumulated experience like anyone else, ---- ie, by killing things.

apparently, because Wookies gave such a high Xp reward, it was quite frequent to come across players who turned into Jedi wooki hunters. Not exactly the best representation of Jedi ethics I feel,  ----- though I suppose you have to wonder what kind of fir those robes are made from? ;D.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2007-03-14 09:13:05 (edited by cx2 2007-03-14 09:14:44)

I think it varies from game to game. Alter Aeon for example gives experience for killing mobs based on their relative difficulty, as well as certain achievements like killing the bear of this particular forest or a monster at the bottom of a well. I presume they also pay out experience for completing quests, but I never quite got my head around their quest system. Changing the experience payout relative to enemy difficulty is standard anyway, and in a lot of muds you're equally able to be good , evil or indeterminate.

Progression varies the most, in AA you use experience to buy levels whereupon you receive 5 practices. These can be used to either train up skills or increase attributes, with attributes costing multiple practices. Later on it is also possible to use experience to just buy practices I believe. Different skills and spells become available at different levels, and you can have levels in any or all of the four classes the price just keeps going up to gain the new level.

I know Godwars 2, I tried it briefly before deciding it was too much like a beat 'em up, uses a system where to improve your skills with say a sword you have to use a sword in combat. The more you use it the more your skill level goes up.

Then you get some muds, admittedly few but present, that lack any sort of level and/or class system. There was a mud based on the Dune books which lacked classes, although I found it boring, and I hate to mention it yet again but the shadowrun muds lack either class or level systems. It doesn't mean you can't specialise, it just makes it more freeform than even Alter's multi class system.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2007-03-14 18:37:17

most shopkeepers in ralnoth in alter aeon are unkillable. in the mud school one is not unkillable.
in godwars2 you use primal in much the same as experience in other muds. you raise powers and train stats.

2007-03-14 20:40:08 (edited by cx2 2007-03-14 20:40:36)

But as I mentioned there is also a certain element of raising skills and level in fighting style through use in Godwars 2, in addition to that system. It's an interesting method, if I didn't really think too much to the rest of the game myself.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2007-03-14 22:01:34

and then there' project bob (strange name i know)
it's the closest to a mainstream rpg.
it has quests (dozzens), missions, and other things.
basicly, the questing system works like, you ask the npc for a quest, and they give very detaled description. because of this you can almost get to know them! and you then have to go out and do the quest. then they give you another one, and ti's harder. finally, if your like me, you may have th opertunity to join a guild. when your in a guild you partake in very dangerous missions and quests. me, i'm trying to slay drakes to get treasures and gems so they can make trophies, and it's bloody hard! your dead in about 10 seconds, you have to be quick, and destroy the drake. me, i use incinerate a lot, does a lot of damage. then there's the spell linking aspect. it links the spell and casts it again. if your quick enough, also, you can cast multiple spells before the round ends, and at the end it applies the total damage to the mob so not only do they get damage from the spells but at the end the total damage is also applied,  weakening it even more! it's fun!
regards,
aaron

2007-03-15 12:05:10

Wel as I've said, quest based muds do sound interesting, ----- though Aaron if your character is losing fights to male ducks, you can't exactly be particularly tough ;D.

Before the uni system got quite so evil, i did once experiment with thom LLorima's mud, ----- then called Lorimud. That had an experience and practice based system as you describe Cx2, however the fairly extreme lack of quests didn't endear me to the game too much, ----- that and the fact that it was incredibly rare to meet a human player, or at least it was for the fortnight or so that I tried the game out.

I'm not sure how it works in muds, but the Snes Rpg game Secret of Mana had a very nice system of ganing Xp with each weapon, and as you played as three characters in the game, this could make things interesting, especially sinse using particular weapons also increased the character's own individual stats, ---- ie, using a bow increased dexterity and wisdom.

the only miner trouble was that sinse part of the game's plot revolved around the hero and his sword, usually whatever three weapons your characters were using, the sword would be one of them.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2007-03-16 18:45:07

CX2, what's the name (or preferably the URL) of the shadowrun mud you are mostly talking about? It seems to be nice. Today, after I found out about Sarah and blah blah game being released by PCS and Draconis Entertainment, I went on searching for a harry potter mud, and all of them are based on the code that I hate. Mush. big_smile And I want to see how that game you're talking about works.

2007-03-17 16:09:39

www.awakenedworlds.net
or
awakenedworlds.net port 4000

There is a little set up involved, for a first char I would advise using the priority system. I'd recommend race as either human or elf unless you really want to be an ork or dwarf, put resources at either priority A or B and skills at the other. Next down attributes then magic so you're mundane. Recommended implants are:
Muscle toner 4
Muscle augmentation 4 if you expect hand to hand fighting
Smartlink-2

Later get a remote control deck so you can track your vehicle locations, and seriously consider either an americar or a bison van for storage and transport.

Right now a friend put me on to www.dark-legacy.com which certainly seems different and interesting at the moment.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.