In all seriousness, while I can sort of see the logic of some device that goes round obstacles that you could follow I agree the fake fir idea is scary.

My other concern with a robot however is how it would judge situations which require reason. Reever can measure gaps and decide which to go through, judge when to go through a revolving door, decide when standing at the bottom of a flight of stairs with a barrier at the top not to go up etc, plus of course her ability to find objects means that she can understand context, so if I stand near the bank and say "find the door" she knows by past experience which door I mean.

While I know Ai can be pretty good, I'm not really sure I'd trust a robot to make these sorts of reasoned judgements, for all I could imagine a robot being able to go around things quite successfully.

As regards people's expectations, well though I do try to be reasonable there are just some times when it isn't possible, or even required, and if people don't like that that's there problem.

i once for instance had a lady, who'ed pulled out her bag and started unpacking the contents all over a very small pavement, when I close to tripped over her tell me:

"well are you, ----" (she paused and saw my cane),

"---- well I suppose you are! blind but you can be more carefull at using that stick"

Frankly I gave her a right royal tongue lashing for that one starting with "how dare! you judge me, try closing your eyes and walking around when someone takes up the entire pavement"

And going on from there.

My mum had a recently hilarious one, where she was told, upon asking whether disabled passes were valid on london busses that "if someone gets on who's afraid of dogs you'll have to get off"

She replied "my dog is a mobility aide! so your saying if someone was afraid of a person's artificial leg they'd have to hop off?"

What's amazing is that the woman at London transport was dead wrong according to British law, because the law clearly states guide dogs are allowed pretty much anywhere, irrispective of what a person feels.

lol well, you are always gonna get those people who don't know and/or understand.  and if they have certain fears, especially about dogs and such, then the situation  is just exacerbated.  even with canes and such you get this.

when i was in seventh grade, 13 years old, i walked into my science classroom and sat down.  i had a folding cane so i folded it up and laid it on my desk for a second while i put my back pack down.  we had a substitute teacher for the day because the main science teacher was gone for the day and she walked in the room at that time.  she immediately walked up to me and asked me if my cane  was  numb chucks. i laughed and said no,...
and you know the rest.
nothing quite as crazy as the incident with the lady with the bleach and the dog, but still you get my point.

Lol, the stuff about canes is quite funny, though I can't say I've ever had someone make those sorts of mistakes with me, though then again back when I was using a cane regularly if I was not using it it'd usually be folded up in my bag or under my seat so wouldn't be visible.

As to the woman and the dog, frankly that's shocking! since I tend to be extremely protective of Reever (mostly because with her personality she's not great at standing up for herself), I'd have likely have given the woman a verbal battering at least and possibly taken her to court over the issue.

Luckily the worst I've experienced was the Scotish woman on the train I mentioned previously in this topic, and that was more funny than anything.

The really odd thing is, since reever is! such a laid back dog who doesn't tend to bark or jump up people, lots of people who aren't usually dog lovers have gotten to like her over time, since she tends to be so calm.

That was just about the only thing I found remotely cool about those darn things.

LOL. I tried to use one of those things for about a month when I was in training and it always collapsed on me at absolutely the most inopportune times. So I'll stick with a graphite cane until suc time as I do get a guide dog.

Congratulations. I will say the first few months aren't easy, even if your very familiar with dogs, however it is well worth it in the end.

As to tips, well, First, try to get on with your dog. How well the guiding, and indeed everything else works will depend a lot on the relationship between you and your dog. Thus encourage your dog to spend time with you, make sure you do the majority of taking care of your dog etc. This was the problematic bit for me sinse originally Reever just didn't want to know me, she just wanted Paul her trainer which was not an easy situation, though ironically has worked out almost the other way (these days Reever is pretty much with me constantly).

Don't leave the dog on it's own, encourage it to be with you. Dog's are pack animals and tend to prefer to be around people, however when depressed often a dog's response is to go and hide in a corner.

Also quite obviously don't go ballistic at your dog if he/she does something wrong (which is actually more likely to occur at the start before your dog is settled). Speaking firmly but not yelling, and being sure to actually only do that when your dog does something wrong. Also, give praise and indeed the occasional treat when your dog is doing something write.

Don't expect too much of your dog at the start, however bare in mind that the more you teach your dog and the more work you give them to do, the better at it they'll get. Reever came knowing basic directional command, "find the box" ie, the crossing button, "follow" and "find the steps" I've sinse taught her to find a hole set of other things, from doors to bus stops, shop counters and even empty seats, not to mention "home" or "out" but this happened gradually.

Be aware that learning guiding is like any other skill, your muscles need to get used to it. There are points it will go wrong, but this is not the dog's fault.

finally, one of the hardest things to learn is trusting your dog, sinse if you've been a frequent long cane user, it will be difficult to let go of being constantly vigilent of sounds and other things around you. This is difficult but will happen over time and is very helpful when it does, indeed one of the most major bennifits of having a guide dog is no longer needing to concentrate quite so much while walking.

Good luck! as I said, it's not easy, but is well worth it, both in terms of guiding, and in terms of dogs just being great friends to have.

Hi Dark, so let's say you got used to a guide dog, she is very well trained and can go to any destination you want, but what if it dies? Just wondering.

Well, to me the commands and how to use them is the easiest part, and I can describe to you guys how leader dog does it.  I was at an o&m program in march that lasted a week and you go through all sorts of o&m skills such as crossing dirt roads/other country travel, and some indoor travel too.  At the end of the week I got to walk with a guide dog, it was great! 
I just returned from a camp for teens, and we spent a day working with one, and after both of those programs I have most of the commands down.

They have the  basic directional commands like forward, left, right, and turn around.  When you say your command, you have to point in that direction with the palm of your hand.  Then they have "Hop up" which is basically a speed up command, and steady does the opposit.  and just like dark and other people have been describing, they are taught the find command, and they're taught some objects before you get them, and you can always teach them more. 

So I'm curious, how is it in the UK?

@Slj, that is pretty funny though not surprising. My mum's first dog was called Lilly, and was very gentle. Once in a supermarket, a lady shouted in quite a firm tone "lilly! come here!" where upon my mum's dog ran streight to her and  sat in front of her. The lady was quite confused and said "what?" my mum said "well you called Lilly, here she is"

It turned out the lady had a little  girl who was also called Lilly, who was actually quite surprised to find she had the same name as my mum's dog.
At  least I shouldn't have that problem with reaver, well not unless someone is warning of an attack of space zombies from out of the firefly series .

@Aaron, learning commands isn't difficult, indeed no harder than say learning the new controls for the game. The harder parts of guiding are learning to walk correctly and have your hands and body in the right position, and learning to trust the dog, though all of this is just a matter of muscles and practice so not soemthing to worry about.

In the Uk  the commands are similar, but there are rather more of them. Left, right, streight on, forward (used when the dog has stopped at a curb or flight of steps), hup hup or steady as you said. Also "back" to turn round, and "in" meaning veer   right but carry on in the same direction and "over" meaning the same to the left, (useful say when your getting too close to the edge of the pavement). They also use the term "watch" spoken quite firmly when the dog is in danger of making a guiding mistake. usually, (and especially with a dog as gentle as reever), yelling "no!" when out in public is a bad idea sinse your going to upset your dog, so "watch" in a slightly less ominous tone works. if for example Reever is taking me around a pole and I accidently hit it even slightlyI tell her "back" go back a few feet then say "watch" and make her try it again. This doesn't happen often, but when it does it is important to use the "watch" phrase and do it again so Reever is still aware what she should be doing.,

Reever also came learning the find commands and "follow" provided I point at the person to follow, also the rather whacky command "busy" meaning go to the toilet, (which is actually useful).

Regarding pointing or making palm gestures, well that depends upon the dog and the person. i was always told to indicate with my body so that I didn't need to with my hand, and to give more emphasis to the vocal commands sinse there are times pointing just isn't possible (such as when carrying a bag in the other hand).

This  does take getting used to sinse it's a bit daunting to  be having to say "streight on" or "right" on the  street in public rather than  just making less  obtrusive gestures but it pays off in the long run sinse if a  dog is more used to hearing commands than seeing them the dog will more easily learn new words.

Also, while those sorts of try out walks are very helpful, guide dogs hear in britain always runs a couple when you sign on or are accepted, they really are only an indicator.  With guide dogs the more you put in and the more used to things you and the dog get, the better things work, especially when you've learnt to trust your dog to  do things  independently. For example these days even if I am in a strange shop I don't bother trying to memorize the layout,  I just tell Reever "find the counter" and let her do it.

speaking of stories, the other day I went out to eat with my family and my sister's boyfriend.  This was the day after I had returned from camp, and we were discussing guide dogs and how they're trained.  My sister's boyfriend was telling us that he knew how guide dogs were trained;  That apparently when they're a few weeks old they get put into vacuum cleaners so they can hear the loud sound and not get scared.  That was all he said about the subject;  He never actually mentioned how they're trained to avoid obstacles and all that.  It made me choke on my water and I couldn't stop laughing at the ridiculousness.

Put into a vacuume cleaner? that's craaaaaazy! :d.

I do know guide dogs are taken to lots of different places and experience lots of different sounds, and one is probably the vacuume cleaner, but I'd imagine sticking a dog inside one would be more likely to scare the gdog! .

Some people just have  dam weerd ideas :d.

I know the guide dogs organization  here in Britain uses those cars with modified breaks, though  I've never heard of trainers who favour rolled up  newspapers, usually it is a matter of telling the dog "no!" very firmly.

with loud noises though while guide dogs do do their absolute best it still depends upon the dog, indeed I've heard labradoodles, cross breeds of labradors and poodles are particularly nervous. Reever is just so laid back she doesn't bother about fireworks or anything else, indeed the only time I've seen her even take notice of a loud noise was when we were at a railway musium and she wasn't too keen on the steam train, which is sort of understandable.

She also doesn't like thunder much, though has never had a problem with fireworks.

Dark lol, I've considered K9 as a guide dog in the past and the taser cane very much reminds me of the BOfH's modified cattleprod. If you're curious Wikipedia BOFH, ie's computer humour shortn stories where idiots get a bit of a shock... or put on the police's armed and dangerous shoot to kill top ten most wanted list, depending on the idiocy in question.

My advice is ignore all the people who say "I bet you fell in love with him straight away" or go on about how they must have changed your life. Kirk is my first guide dog and for quite some time I felt really guilty that he was all over me and I hadn't developed that level of affection yet, I grew up with cats and never had any experience with dogs, and people saying that just made me feel more guilty. A friend said to me they're quite happy so long as they get a play and a tickle, she was right. Now I absolutely love him and wouldn't be without him.

He was 4 in April and is both cheeky and nosey. He loves people and he's forever trying to sneak up to them if I'm sat down somewhere, say on a bus or in my braille class, and isn't shy about nudging them with his head. First free run he ever went on, with the trainers so I got the idea, he came dashing back and flew straight into my crotch which I can laugh about now but by hell it was a shock. He's also flown into my brother in law's crotch and nutted him on the forehead when he bent down to see what Kirk was doing, just a pity neither did any lasting damage though my sister wished she had a recording of it lol. In fact he's here right now between me and my desktrying to get some attention.

I might say he changed my life but I wouldn't say he tranfformed it. He has made things so much easier out and about but most of all I love him so dearly and having him with me all the time, or near enough, is just wonderful.