2012-03-01 12:39:13

Hmm... It seems to me, that we're not going to have that rule...
Come on audio gamers, say "yes, master!" and be happy...
I know I was against it - and I still am - but I better like a forum with that rule than a forum with 200 posts by the same member in a row...
1. Hi
2. Can you help me? I have a problem
3. I've forgotten how to spell glasnain
4. Glankanin
5. Glaskanin
6. Okay, got it...

To see a world in a grain of sand, and a heaven in a wild flower.
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand, and eternity in an hour.
William Blake - Auguries of Innocence, line 1 to 4

2012-03-01 14:55:07

I'm for the rule, because of klango and maybe more comunitys. Look at the thread at klango titled "mostly about battle zone, but other games I made to", there it was a big big mess!
over 2400 posts, with nothing interesting in them.

2012-03-01 15:50:31

Moderation!

Can I please ask people not to mention actual percentages in the thread, sinse any voting needs to be the free decision of whoever votes based upon the issue at hand and the reasons given, --- -which is indeed why the forum itself won't let you see how many people have voted for each position until you've voted yourself.

I've moderated Alex' above post to remove the number, but if people will remember in future that would help, ---- sinse after all a poll, especially one on such a contentious issue needs to be as fair as possible.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2012-03-01 16:40:40

Don't blame me!  I was born with deform wings...and body structure....and sense of navigation. 

    Well, I've seen Klango's posts.  And I'm sure that I saw some topics where the same poster typed all his or her lines one post at a time.  (Why'd I read 3 pages of posts made by the same person, I don't know).  Though considering that would probably be moderated on how cluttered it is, maybe it wouldn't matter for that case. 

   And for people saying that no one will read their post if they edit it.  If it's a new topic that has a fairly small amount of posts, people are bound to read the topic to "catch up."  So they'll see your edits.  (Like I've seen Cae and a few others pull of on their posts.)  Though if your post is the last thing in the topic, please don't create some long explaination you thought of just because you wanted to "bump" the topic back into the top so people can answer.  If it hasn't gotten a post, it's dead.  Start a new one.

2012-03-01 17:13:39

Good points indeed, I'm always rather confused why people are so wary about creating more topics and prefer to reuse old ones even if it has been years! sinse they last got a post in them, witness my puppet nightmares thread in the main forum, it was far easier for me to post a new topic than go and hunt out bladestorm's original from last year.

As far as edits go, sinse people are just editing the last post anyway, and even then only when nobody has replied and you've got something legitimate to say, most of the time it shouldn't make a difference if the edit is relatively close to the original post time.

I do however take violinists' point about addressing different subjects in different consecutive posts, or using multiple posts one after another to create a log like effect where your discussing something progressively such as each level of a game your playing through, ---- however myself I'm inclined to think that these good factors of double posting are overshadowed by the bad ones and possible abuses of the feature, hence the need for a rule, ---- however we'll see how the vote goes.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2012-03-01 17:32:33 (edited by themadviolinist 2012-03-01 17:34:44)

The somewhat abbridged version of the reasons why I vehemently oppose such a rule:

Such a rule would make it difficult or impossible to construct a narrative, stream-of-consciuousness thread such as my Journey of game development topic.  As the timing of entries is dependent upon events during my game creation task, I can't predict in advance when i have something to write.  I also cannot predict when it would be kosher for me to put in an entry, and such entries are quite time-sensitive, since the idea for the entry is easily superceded by the next development.

So, in the case where the rule existed, I'd be forced to edit the last entry, which while not painful in difficulty would completely destroy the structure I've imposed, where each entry of mine is on a very specific subtopic of game development.  The result would be sprawling, multi-topic entries that would be much harder to follow or refer to.

The multi-topic entry is also a problem for me in other conversations.  If you look at the Swamp discussion, there are a lot of entries (mine included) that end up being omnibus responses to several entries all at once.  These are harder to follow than single, focused entries that in turn could be responded to more easily.  If the board were threaded (That is, replies to posts showed up immediately following that post, this would be dealt with systematically and the double posts issue wouldn't even exist).  Since this is not the case, we rely on context and occasionally post numbers to know to what post someone is replying.  Single-topic posts would make this easier, but are rendered impractical in a zero-tolerance environment for double posts.

And since advocates are campaigning here, I will call upon those of you who find this rule as destructive as i do to not be complacent and vote it down to ignominious defeat.

2012-03-01 18:00:48

Wow!  Ignominious defeat?  Last I remember we were dealing with a simplistic rule, not a corrupt and shameful government system.  smile

Nevertheless, I find that a rather impressive choice of words and fairly persuasive writing.  Were I of a different mind, you would probably have me convinced that my neutrality was wrong on this subject.

I am honored to have found and ended up on a forum with such great writers, even if I feel that people have at times taken their beliefs to outrageous extremes.  I can truthfully say that I have never experienced a dull moment out here and look forward to the days to come.

When life gives you oranges, demand lemons since everyone else is obviously getting them.

2012-03-01 18:32:53

Lol violinist, your word choice is great, and perhaps over the top for a simple rule. If i was like 10 years younger you would have had me change my mind in a second. Nice wording.

2012-03-01 19:13:26

Indeed, that is an exceptionally written post, ---- I've just given it a thumbs up, despite the fact that I do not agree with it big_smile.

As I said I don't dispute your points regarding stream of consciousness writing and blog style posts, I just am of the opinion that the past abuses of the system outway the good that it can do, and the grim and tangled chaos of a world where forum members do war upon another without rhyme, reason or mercy for those who get in the way of the salvos of many short posts is one we do not wish to see, for this reason, I will ask people to side with the right and order of the universe, ---- or indeed the forum! :d.

And yes, I freely admit I'm getting carried away there big_smile.

Back to the matters at hand though, to be honest on a personal level I really dislike threaded mode on the forums I've seen it. It just seems to create a hole bunch of what is to me useless information before and behind each post, and many, many more links and things to go through when reading topics, ---- not to mention when writing them. Because of this I barely if ever pay attention to the threads, sinse there is just too much information about how each post relates to others to actually make me want to bother taking the time to read it, sinse obviously I'm just interested in what the perso themselves have said.

Then again, as an ardent rambler, I've always been in favour of sprawling, multi topic replies, and even were the forum threaded my own thoughts are probably not half so organized as to make the system work for me :d.

This is of course all personal opinion though, from an administration standpoint I'll of course go with the majority decision as I have said.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2012-03-01 19:25:26

I like the sprawling posts as well. I'm not a fan of stream of consciousness writing on any forum i think it looks messy. That is just my oppinion though. I'm the type of person who likes to get everything out in one clear post. I think a blog would be more appropriate for journaling or constant updating.

2012-03-01 21:11:57

Precisely.  While I appreciate the way the mind works, my idea of reading a forum is not tied to that concept.  When I do wish to read things based on stream of consciousness and the like, I just pull out a coppy of Finnegans Wake  and get to it.  Open that masterpiece to any page and I think you'll find your mind looks a lot like that to anyone who isn't yourself.

When life gives you oranges, demand lemons since everyone else is obviously getting them.

2012-03-02 00:18:15

Thank you both for the compliments and I accept that mine is not the sole and completely right point of view.  However you've not told me how I could do what i want to do in the journey topic under a double-post rule regime.  Removing the possibility for one type of constructive comment that may help folk get into development trumps double posting woes in my opinion.

2012-03-02 10:13:26

Well violinist it is true you couldn't do a constant jernal style posting under the rule, ----- but as Arq said to my mind that is what a blog is for not a forum, indeed I might considder writing a blog myself just for that reason.

the rule however is not intended to be a perfect solution, and I do recognize that it throws out some good it the bad, it's just that in the past the abuses I've seen of the system i believe outway what good could come ofpeople like yourself using it as intended.

It's a little like an antivirus system blocking cookies, hardware install, autorun and the like from your machine. When used properly such things are fine, but when abused by a virus they can cause problems.

I myself have gone on a case by case basis with such things, allowing some but not others. And as I said, in the case of multiple posts based on what I have seen in the pas think the bad outways the goo in this particular case.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2012-03-02 12:41:43 (edited by AlexN94 2012-03-02 12:45:27)

Hmm... Finnegans Wake... Isn't that the book with the very long words for doors or something? smile

Dark> I've deleted my post about the % of votes - just so people aren't getting confused or something... I'm sorry about that, I hadn't thought of that problem it could be... smile

To see a world in a grain of sand, and a heaven in a wild flower.
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand, and eternity in an hour.
William Blake - Auguries of Innocence, line 1 to 4

2012-03-02 18:35:23

No problem alex. usually it would be fine, but obviouly we want this vote to be as fair as posible, an if people vote one side or other because it's got more or less votes in the numbers then it would not be.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2012-03-02 19:13:37 (edited by AlexN94 2012-03-02 19:14:50)

That's right... I wasn't thinking... smile Looking forward to the result though... I don't hope it's to much to say, that they're close to each other? BTW, everything is relative,... I can say that 10 and 20000 are close to each other, just because 0 is nothing, so they are just 1 and 2... big_smile

An other thing, when is the voting gonna close?

To see a world in a grain of sand, and a heaven in a wild flower.
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand, and eternity in an hour.
William Blake - Auguries of Innocence, line 1 to 4

2012-03-03 15:18:14

Moderation!

post text removed as per previously mentioned bias in the vote.

2012-03-03 15:19:47

Did... did you not read the previous three posts?

看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
    George... Don't do that.

2012-03-03 15:51:37

the vote I believe will end at midnight tonigt, and we'll implement the result.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2012-03-04 01:38:18

excuse me?
How was my post bias

2012-03-04 02:55:44

Forum admins, install this PunBB extension, and this problem becomes irelevant.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Believe it or not, in a past incarnation, I was Alexander the Great's chief eunuch.

2012-03-04 05:44:18

Hi.
I think everyone needs to calm down, before this turns into a flame wor. This is the least we need. Why does this topic need to turn into a giant flame wor?

proud to be a patreon of liam erven. Become a patreon today at patreon.com/liamerven

2012-03-04 10:00:56

@Robla, as I said to alexander above, having vote totals mentioned in the actual poll is not really on. Afterall when someone votes we want their decision to be based only on the arguements for or against, not on anything else, ---- -for instance voting because one position got more votes and they don't believe the other has chance of winning.

this is how all ballots across the world work, including elections here in Britain.
@james, thanks for the extention, I'll have a look.

To everyone else, the final result is 15 in favour of the rule, but 17 against.

It has been a very close run vote with almost equal numbers, but by two votes the majority has decided double posting should be allowed. So, now everyone can doulbe post as needed. I'll edit the rule out of the faq later today, and we'll see what happens.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2012-03-04 18:46:41

Exacly what does the extention do?

To see a world in a grain of sand, and a heaven in a wild flower.
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand, and eternity in an hour.
William Blake - Auguries of Innocence, line 1 to 4

2012-03-04 18:52:22

I would install that thing myself if it does any good.