2011-07-05 16:23:46

The topic of audio movies has popped up a few times recently, and I wondered how many audio files of TV shows are around.  Star Trek seems to be fairly popular around here, or at least, I've seen a few Star trek themed games on the list and a few people have Star Trek themed user names.  I believe it was Nocturnus who recently asked me what I normally watch, as far as TV is concerned, and my answer was Stargate.  I'm not sure if everyone here is familiar with the show, heck, I can't even say "show" because the Stargate storyline has spanned 3 movies, and 3 entire television series!  Without any doubt, Stargate is my all time favorite storyline, I have followed each series, and I recently finished watching every episode once again.

I think many people move toward Star trek because it has so much material available.  Because it has been running since the 60s, there are 726 different episodes of the show, spread out across many different TV series.  That's a whole lot of material!  While I do enjoy Star trek, I do prefer Stargate myself. 

For anyone who has followed both Star Trek, and Star Wars, the following will make a whole lot of sense.  As far as story is concerned, many people prefer Star Wars because it has a central storyline that spans the movies.  The downside to this, is that you can't produce as much material before you have to abandon the storyline and work from a new one.  Star Trek tried to get away from any single story, and was instead able to branch out into a million little stories.  This gave their writers a much easier time spreading out the Star Trek theme into several television series.  When it comes to this balance between storyline and expanding content, Stargate actually succeeded where Star Wars failed.  I think that is why I enjoy it so much.

Stargate choose to stick to a major storyline, more like how Star wars did, yet like Star trek, Stargate was able to branch out in to different series and a large number of episodes.  It's considerably short of 726, but when you add up the different Stargate episodes, you end up with 354!  When you also consider that there are 3 movies, you're talking about a huge amount of material!

I've gotten myself very side tracked, but my point was to bring attention to this huge storyline, for anyone who wasn't aware of it.  I say this so often, but I wish I had more time to work on projects.  I won't even consider starting something so huge, but I would absolutely LOVE! to turn the entire collection of Stargate material into audio featuring descriptions and commentary.  Back in January I had been toying around with ways to improve how audio movies are done, but sadly it is another casualty of "too little time", lol.  I would actually feel honored to bring the Stargate storyline to everyone here, but the project would be far too large.  I estimate I would need about 3 hours of work, for every 1 hour of material, so to complete the entire Stargate project it would take me approximately 724 and a half hours!  Holy crap, that's a long time!

- Aprone
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2011-07-05 17:00:45

Actually aprone, other than the original film, I've just not watched stargate at all. It's one of these things I'd love to watch, but do not want to buy, and can't really watch on tv due to usually it being a good many episodes through or you needing huge amounts of background to the series to enjoy.

Pluss, I'm a start at the beginning and go through to the end sort of person anyway ;d.

Startrek I enjoy watching, and own several series on dvd, though I wouldn't describe myself as a huge fan, I also own babylon 5.

the scifi series I am! a major fan of is doctor who in various encarnations (both the show and the doctor). I've been to conventions and driven a dalek, and have met some of the cast as well, though I must confess to being rather unimpressed with the current directions things are taking, sinse while I don't dislike mat smith as a doctor, everytime a major episode has been written for him recently it's been dire! full of plotholes, badly done pacing and waaaaay too much trying to pack everything into a small space.

I also don't think much to Amy his current assistant either.

I'm really hoping the writing picks up sinse it really seems to have hit a bad point, and the sad thing is people seem to be blaming Mat smith which is a shame, sinse when he's given something good to work with like the recent single episode written by Neel gayman, he's done a fantastic job.

That being said, the classics are always fun (mostly), and many of the original doctors are stil making audio dramas with their old companions, some of which are amazing!

I'm never sure though how much doctor who has a fan base outside the uk, indeed that's one problem I felt with the first two episodes of the current series, they were trying far too hard to appeal to americans, though I have certainly met some dr. who fans from other countries.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2011-07-05 17:22:01

I want to be the first to say that the first film, Stargate, is a terrible Terrible! representation of the rest of the franchise.  When they first made the movie, the writers were told it was too confusing, and they had to rewrite things to make it simpler for the audience.  I believe that was a big mistake on the part of the marketing people, who were assuming that everyone would be lost when some of their test viewers didn't understand the story.  Years after the movie was released, the series was launched, and they were quickly putting the original movie to shame.  The first 2 or 3 episodes of the show were a little weak, but in director's comments they explain that the people in charge wanted them to take a few episodes to transition the characters, story, and style over from the old movie.  I guess it was an attempt to make sure the original movie was integrated into the series.

Starting from the beginning, and watching it through to the end, is my style as well Dark.  That's why I would want to do the entire collection if I was going to start the project at all.  Sadly, because I would want to do all, or nothing, it pretty much means I'll be doing nothing.

I've never actually watched Dr. Who, though they certainly play enough commercials for it on the Sci fi channel, lol!  One of these days I'm sure I'll see a few episodes.

- Aprone
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2011-07-05 17:48:48

With sg, it's one of those series where i wished you could stil do dvd wrentals of series, sinse that's how I'd like to watch it rather than trying to collect the hole thing. I've heard about a couple of firms that do mail order wrentals, and probably i need to look into those, especially now I'm cancelling my tv license, as the few things currently it actually costs less to buy the few things I do watch on dvd than pay the lisence fee, and so much of the rest of tv is either celebrity rubbish or reality tv rubbish.

As to doctor who, one thing to remember if you do come across any, is that ar more than any other series in science fiction, it's changed heavily over the years.

the basic principle is the doctor is a time lord, an alien from another planet, who wanders round time and space in his tardis, a police telephone box shaped time machine with various companions.

this is one of the first things I love about the series, you can have episodes set literally anywhere and anywhen, from prehistory, thyrough various periods on earth right up until the end of the universe.

As well as some really landmark monsters, it also has a heavy emphasis on time travel, and various recurring plots and villains.

it's also significant that the doctor never solves problems with violence, and usually out foxes or out thinks any opponents he comes across. Though of course being an alien himself (though with an outwardly humanoid appearence), he has various strange skills and forms of knolidge, and is a quirky and weerd character, ----- especially sinse when he dies, instead of being dead he regenerates, and changes his appearence and personality, but keeps his basic moral outlook and mode of travel.

It originally ran as basically a 1960's education drama, in which viewers would follow the doctor going to historical periods and learning about people like marco polo along the way. It also did fall rather badly into the "female characters are useless screaming rescue bate" catagory.

Then, it slowly evolve to actually something with ongoing stories in the 80's, and while each story was itself unique composed of several episodes, elements like the doctor's enemy the master continued.

in 1987, colin baker, the 6th regeneration of the doctor was forced to leave (a fact he's stil irritated about), and the 7th doctor's adventures were very short before a git of a bbc director completely canceled the hole thing in 1989.

there was an absolutely atrocious attempt by fox in 1996  to revive the series, but that was abysmal, and it finally got back in full glory in 2005, with some stylistic changes and christopher ecleston as the 9th doctor, ----- though actually he's probably my single least favourite one, particularly as he involve character traites like irritating anxt which didn't really belong in the series at all.

then it was taken over by david tenant who frankly revitalized everything! but left in 2009, and now we have mat smith, who as I said, is a pretty fun doctor, but with some not great writing.

then in amongst all this there are of course audio dramas produced with past doctors, books, commics and goodness knows what, sinse one adventure advantage of a series set throughout time and space you really can do anything at any time.

it'd be actually impossible to watch through everything! not the least because the bbc have lost many of the episodes of the first two doctors.

however, if you can catch some of the better stories that'd help.

Don't judge by ecleston if you happen to start with new series 1, which would probably be easiest in terms of availability, but less good in terms of style sinse the new series really didn't settle down until the second series when david tenant became the doctor.

However, if you can get some good episodes with the past doctors that'd give you some idea.

one advantage to doctor who though, is because they ran as episodic stories not single short episodes, and because each one features the doctor and his companions elsewhere, you really don't have to worry about continuity too much with a lot of the classic series, ----- or at least with many episodes.

I in fact got interested when I started watching doctor who on the Uk gold channel on sky when i was about twelve, but they didn't start in order either, and certainly there is a lot of classic doctor who which I haven't seen myself (though I have at one time or another seen a good bit of what's available).

One recent problem though is unlike othr things, the bbc release classic doctor who as individual films of each story, rather than as series box sets, which is really irritating! sinse I just don't have the cash to collect them in that way, though i have a few, mostly presents from friends. Though certainly new series box sets exist.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2011-07-05 17:51:10

I've heard a few people talking about Dr. who lately, but these aren't people I'd consider mainstream Americans. I think it is building up a fanbase outside of the UK, though.

看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
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    George... Don't do that.

2011-07-05 18:10:01

Quite probably. Though the rather heavy handed first couple of epsidoes of this current series, which in one story featured the moon landing, president nixon, jokes about the founding fathers, the fbi, area 51 and even president nixon was a bit much or my taste.

not that i mind the doctor in America, there have been several stories set there in the old and new series as well as audios and novels (there was one very interesting one I heard recently where some aliens were trying to monkey with the assassination of lincoln), however throwing so much well known americanisms at the viewers in one story was clumsy in the extreme, and their intention was a bit too blatant I think.

Then again as I said, I think the overall writing has gone down sinse steven mophat became chief writer on the project, and while some of the guest writers have done some good episodes, this sort of heavyhandedness seems to be worryingly common.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2011-07-05 18:49:54

I did watch stargate for a while... I even tried to develop an accessible DHD simulator (there are way too many flash based ones  that I saw 1 way or another) and I think I was able to do some interesting things... Though I ended up abandoning the project.
Personally I'm a big star trek fan, and as far as doctor who, I just can't get into to it... Not like I tried hard though big_smile.
As far as stargate goes though, I must say I prefer the earlier seasons than the later ones. I especially like how Sam Carter was portraid in the first few episodes with quite a bit of humor, which was actually true for many of the characters, like O'neil. I liked Atlantis too, though So far I can't really seem to enjoy Universe, which is slightly odd since I always found the idea of a stargate series set on a ship interesting.

<Insert passage from "The Book Of Chrome" here>

2011-07-05 20:10:28

Stargate universe has a very different feel to it, than the other 2 series.  I run in to quite a few Stargate fans who didn't care for the change, but I believe it is nice to focus on the human side of things.  The crazy science fiction things that happen to the crew of the Destiny (stargate universe) aren't actually meant to be the focus of the story.  It's kind of reversed from what people are used to.  When Rush shot the Lucian alliance guy, I actually cheered in my chair watching the show!  I feel like the people in "Universe" feel more like real people than any of the other shows.  It is easier to identify with them, and I, for one, feel like I identified with Nicholas Rush the most.  Most of the time in shows, the characters don't do what you would do in their place, but when Rush shot that guy, it was exactly what I would have done in his place, and it made me love the show that much more.

- Aprone
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2011-07-06 02:53:07

The original movie was okay for its time. SG1 was good but had its cheesy moments, Atlantis was overall good. Universe felt pretty atrocious all around, it felt like they were too busy telling stories about the characters arguing with each other to actually focus on anything else to me. I'm also livid that they cancelled Atlantis because it was cheaper to make a whole new series (Universe) then cancelled Universe.

Regarding doctor who I actually liked Eckleston and have found my interest waning ever since. The first series with Tenant was nice enough but the last one with him I found pretty dull and repetitive, and I've barely bothered with Matt Smith. Though that said the "angels" thing was different and vaguely interesting. I much favour Tom Baker or possibly John Pertwee.

I still adore Babylon 5 for its story, though it feels more novel-like in a lot of ways. As to Star Trek I mostly favour DS9 with occasional forays into Voyager, Next Generation or Enterprise depending on what the episodes are but not the original series.

If anyone hasn't seen it Eureka is truly exceptional, sometimes advertised in the UK as "A Town Called Eureka" to avoid confusion with an old old science show called Eureka.

Of all these the only ones I'd actually bother buying would be Babylon 5, Eureka, and possibly some of the older Doctor Who's. I might consider a few series of mid to late DS9 if they were going cheap admittedly but overall star trek and stargate aren't something I'd want to buy.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2011-07-06 13:32:42

I absolutely adored SG Atlantis. I thought the writing was fantastic and the story kept me very focused. I managed to get in to the show right before the canciled it. I felt a bit sad that they decided to pull the plug on it because i thought it was so well done. I read that there was going to be a movie tieing up some of the plot lines of atlantis called Stargate extinction, but, i have yet to see it come out. I also am a huge star trek voyager fan and watch it over and over. I never got in to SG1 but i can watch a few episodes here and there. I never even bothered with Universe for some reason.

2011-07-06 17:39:36

Fairly recently I read an article that the Sci fi network canceled production on the Atlantis movie.  They are apparently going through financial difficulties and that's also why they cut the Universe series.  The article said they weren't even willing to spend the money to take down the sets for Universe.  Times are tough.

- Aprone
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Aprone's software

2011-07-06 18:37:48

Wow, it sure sounds like a depressing situation.

2011-07-06 23:47:53

Interesting Cx2, I never liked ecleston, the doctor just should not! have anxt, nor wear a leather jackit.

Tenant's second series I was less keen on (apart from the master who was awsome), mostly because martha jones just felt like a budgit version of rose and quite uninteresting, however I was a big fan of his third series, some great concepts like the creatures removing pople from history and seeing a timeline without the doctor, and the midnight epeisode where the creature is unseen possibly even in mental form only.

I agree though the finales have been gone down hill mostly because they cram oo much into one or two episodes thus making them feel far too fast, though David tenant's death was rather nice.

however mat smith as I've said , while he's had some great individual stories like the reutnr of the silurians (who are just awsome), has just gone down in major series writing I think.

in terms of old doctors, my favourites are actually colin baker, especially in all his audios, the bickering, abrasive sixth doctor in the loud clothes who at the same time had a real caring streak, and john pertwee for his dry humour and great presence even if I have to sometimes curb my genda lequalitarian impulses (they were made in the 70's after all).

the one classic doctor I never liked much was silvester mccoy, but hereing the big finish audios I'm developing more of a respect for him, mostly because they haven't pushed the "he's manipulative!" angle down your throat as they did on the tv series, and gave him some character behind that.

He also has a great new assistant, in fat some of the extra assistants in the audios are great, like Evelyn Smythe, assistant to the sixth doctor, who's actually a history professor in her late 40's, and Errimem, a very inteligent and hard as nails female phairo who travels with the fith doctor.

The 7th doctor has the gun toting, but now actually older and slightly relaxed ace, pluss a new companion, Hex, who's actually a rather inocent mail nurse.

babylon 5 is awsome, i'm rewatching it currently (am on the late 3rd series), however it's really a done project, none of the ways to extend it really worked, and while I love the initial series and the films that slot into it I'm less sure about things like crusade.

I'd love to see a similar project from stratsinski, but I rather like the fact that  b5 has a natural ending, which most series don't, and I'd rather not see that spoilt by continual ways to resurrect it.

Startrek wise, Next gen is stil my favourite series, and I own all of it on dvd, along with all of ds9 and voyager, (In the flatpack form which was only 17 quid a series from amazon).

Ds9 and voyager I found had their moments (though ds9's supposedly dark war plot seemed slightly tame after babylon 5 I'll admit), and voyager always felt as if it had potential but never got going until the last series.

Series 1-3 are pretty good, but after 7 of 9 came in it just devolved to weekly adventures and nothing really happening. Pluss I really didn't like the way nearly everything got solved with 7's nanomachines! if they were that useful and could pretty much resolve just about everything! the borg should've taken over the universe long ago ;d.

janeway I'm afraid I just alsofo found irritating, mostly because of her long lectures, voice like a robot and pretty nasty beurocratic decisions, also it seemed few of the other characters got to do much, which is why i liked series 8.

if series 8 had been series 4, and then they wrote another four series, voyager would've imho been fantastic!

I've watched a good few original series episodes, but it's a litle too 60's and derivative for me to want to own the hole thing, or rewatch too much, unlike early doctor who You can't really just relax into it and take the plots and interest, you always have to be remembering where it was made and how old, and, for instance when redshirts are continually killed!

Enterprise I'd like to watch, but don't particularly want to buy.

Eureka I'd be interested to see after your description Cx2, but again, i'd prefer to wrent it first, and I've not found a decent dvd series wrental service, ditto with the various sg encarnations.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2011-07-07 20:54:33

I could see why Eckleston's doctor was more shellshocked than angsty I felt. Having your entire race annihilated will do that to you and I wouldn't have understood if he'd been all singing and smiles. Tenant felt more like a generic identifit doctor rather than a unique doctor in his own right, to me he was more a generic concept of what the doctor was and I didn't feel enough individuality in there. That's combined with my missing the longer stories which give you time to really explore the plot better, plus things have been too earth centric for a long time in my opinion.

I know DS9 tried to be dark and that didn't really work out, I did enjoy the ongoing plot for the change of pace though.

As to Babylon 5, well Crusade was rather weak but they had barely finished half a series when the plug was pulled. I'd have liked to see what came of Legend of the Rangers but that was apparently scheduled opposite one of the "biggest (american) football games of recent years" as I heard it described and while I'd have expected geeks to do better than that there is a certain logic to it, especially with multiple sharing a TV in some cases. The lost tales wasn't bad but Strazinsky is a perfectionist and he got it in his head it wasn't what he wanted to make because he hadn't been allowed the budget, something I'd disagree with. The old Doctor Who's show you can do a lot without a vast budget if you have the writing and if you get the audience behind you.

Dark, next time you're at your parents see if you can catch an ep of Eureka. It used to be on Sky One then moved to sci fi so it could be on any of those or the other Sky Gibberish, Sky tripe etc. It's well worth it. If you only watch one of the new sci fi series from the 2000's, not counting Doctor Who, I would definitely make it Eureka. The new Galactica wasn't bad but it to'd and fro'd too much between an involved long term plot and a simpler plot of the week style, apparently because of the channel bosses interfering.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2011-07-08 15:09:39

I just liked the rather comedic, fun but at the same time interesting original galactica a bit too much, the new series struck me as far too many modern sterriotypes of anxty characters chucked at the screen, and while it had some interesting ideas, as you said, none developed fully.

I disagree about Tenant, there have never really een any hyper upbeat, likeable doctors in a similar way, and after ecleston he just seemed a breath of fresh air, especially when in later episodes he started strugling with his own arrogance which eventually killed him.

Ecleston I just felt was a generic modern concept character. it's a bit too easy for writers to create anxt currently, gruff, unfriendly heroes with some sort of tragic past who are unpleasant to eveyone but your supposed to feel sorry for them, ----- even Aragorn in the lotr films (something which made no sense at all, given that if you know any of his history he was pretty much always going to be king anyway, and was bought up by elrond to do that, so why all the anxt is beyond me).

yes I'll agree the time war plot was an interesting idea in itself, but for me it just didn't justify changing the doctor so much

Afterall, the doctor has in the past been responsable for some very bad decisions including death of his own assistance, destruction of various races, saving the daleks at their creation when he could've destroyed them, and even ending up in serious trouble with the timelords on several occasions for interfering in the course of history, ----- in fact that was why john pertwee was exiled to earth in the 20th century and spent half his series stuck there sinse the timelords had deactivated his Tardis and removed knolidge of the principles of time travel from his mind.

So, the doctor going all anxty just didn't fit for me, it was too modern sterriotype and not enough doctor who.

i'll try and keep an eye out for Eureka next ime I'm at my parents, sinse we certainly do have the scifi channel, though I admit I've not watched many series on scifi, mostly i use it for getting classic films.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)