2018-11-27 19:30:44

Hi all,

So the last time I wrote about this game, I was on level 6 and had no idea what I was doing. Now, thankfully, I've made it to level 17. And I still don't know what I'm doing.

I get very confused about the security carts, and how it is they can spot me vertically sometimes even though I usually can't shoot them vertically. This level has been frustrating the hell out of me for months now, and I'm kind of at a loss. I've made it through the door at the end a couple of times, but I always get spotted, stamina-locked and killed before I can take down the cart.

So uh, what the hell.

Can someone recommend a foolproof strat to beat this level? I can be pretty quick when I need to be. I just need to know what'll work. And how to kill the blasted cart at the end. I'm really looking forward to getting through the next 2-3 levels so I can start unlocking more stuff.

And yes, I know there are threads about this game, but since my issue is fairly limited, I figured I'd make my own.

So...help? Please?

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

Thumbs up

2018-11-27 19:57:17

Stage 17, which act? Security carts have a vertical range of, 4 tiles? I may be wrong on that, but they do have some limited vertical range. Stage 17 requires you to use scaffolds to climb up and down the floors of the biocontrol building to avoid the patrolling carts. If the carts spot you, then you likely are either on the same level as it is or not far enough above it, but that shouldn't happen unless you are trying to jump over them. And the reason you get stamina locked is because you are using a weapon which requires more staminathan you have so either cary stamina drinkswith you, or use a lighter weapon once you're trapped in the room with a cart you need to destroy.

regards,
assault_freak

Thumbs up

2018-11-27 20:00:25

17.2, specifically. 17.1 I managed to get through.
and no, stamina locked is when I get hit over and over by thost stupid lime balls. The ones which make the drain sound from SuperLiam when they hit you, and render you unable to move. The weapon I've been using is the yo-yo, because it hits unbelievably hard, but if there's a better cart-killing weapon, please do let me know.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

Thumbs up

2018-11-27 21:50:58

Well, the good news is that I got past 17.2, discovering that the advice given by the guide is, for me at least, actually rather bad advice. Also learned you can follow security carts and shoot them in the back, and they won't turn around.
And after awhile of being stuck on 17.4 - god, that chase is crazy - I'm now stuck on 18.4. Is it just me, or are these flight levels with lots of walls and turbulence just...not fun?
I'd also like to see turbulence not auto-kill you, instead just shaving off a bunch of health (like 5k-10k per shot, at least on normal). There's a part near what I'm hoping like hell is the end of this level where there are like 3-4 turbulences in a small space, and even at the lowest possible speed, I always fail to thread the needle, so to speak. Having to mindlessly blow through the first half or more of the level, destroying energy barriers in the dozens, is just...

Well, this is really driving home a feeling I've had about this game, and so I'm sorta kinda changing the thrust of this topic a bit. Hey, I created it, I can do that.

This game's details are amazing, its sound design is quite good, its enemy AI and bosses are neat...but it's just not grabbing me. There's a lot of repetition, a metric crapton of stuff to unlock but really it just seems like you're going to have to do the same thing over and over and over again. Like for hundreds of hours. And I'm sorry, but when I've played a side-scroller through once, maybe twice, and get to a point where I have strategies that work for me, I may not want to just grind it repeatedly. I don't really relish having to do those security cart levels over again, nor the more complex flight missions, and oh dear god, don't even get me started on Carla.
So I've had sort of a moment, and I'm very strongly considering dropping the game. And no, it's not purely or even mostly because I suck, though I sort of do. It's because the point of the game seems to be "grind for random stuff, use random stuff to get bigger badder guns/weapons, wipe the floor with enemies till they can't hurt you much, then beat the game, increase the difficulty and pull your hair out all over again". My best weapon is the yo-yo currently, and I think my ship has something like 37500HP, but of course that doesn't help when turbulence auto-kills. I can get gold and levels on 18.1, but again, what's it all for? I can't unlock most of the stuff I want to without beating the game, and I can't beat the game without a tremendous amount of slog. And some of these items will require three, four, five or even more times the slog.
So I am not smashing the game. Obviously there are enough of you who enjoy it that it's doing many things right. I'm just...not sold on the whole concept. Would be nice to just auto-skip flight missions, honestly, as I don't find them fun.

Also, how does UFO Catcher work? On the off chance I do decide to come back to this one, what exactly is the point?

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

Thumbs up

2018-11-27 22:04:10 (edited by assault_freak 2018-11-27 22:05:39)

Quite frankly, one you beat the game once, everything becomes easier since you're free to play whichever levels you want again until you want to switch dificulty modes. 18.4 is not the same stage you're talking about, so I'm guessing you're talking about 18.2. Yes, turbulants are kinda annoying... and the game does involve a lot of grinding. But nothing says you have to complete 100% of the unlockables. I certainly don't intend to as the majority of the weapons are simply more powerful versions of existing ones. I unlocked everything that was uniquely different, still a huge collection, and haven't really played again. Flight missions are fun once you get good at the system, but it's frustrating until then. But this game definitely will rab some more than it does others. If your thirst is not for action and tons of enemy slaughter, then this game probably won't grab you as much. I hold this game up and ove it simply because there are tons ofthings, indeed including the flying system which actually works very well once you get the hang of it, that have never been done in audio games before. Also, once you've upgraded your own stats enough, there is no more hair pulling since everything becomes infinitely easier EG: when you don't even have to hide from security carts and can just destroy them in one attack and cruise on by. Keep in mind that stats also effect how strong weapons are, in addition to their base value.

regards,
assault_freak

Thumbs up

2018-11-27 22:18:21

Yeah I got tired of grinding after finally finishing the mega shooter, and that was very painful even with cheats. I can not stand grinding...
I used to dislike the flying levels and some are still just a bit much, but when I learned how to slow down and got the better machinegun and relaxed a bit, it became just kind of a minigame and I enjoyed it allot more.

This... -- Is CNN'.
Well Ted, it sure looks like there's been uh, quite a bit of violence around here
"aaoh, that violence was terrible'!"
Yeah it was, pretty bad.

Thumbs up

2018-11-27 22:22:42

18.2, quite right. My issue with 18.2 is that I'm getting turbulence announcements on top of each other, and unlike walls/jets/whatever else, I can't just turn around and take another crack at it. So I'll hear one announcement (is turbulence only one tile wide?) and then a second interrupts it, and by the time I'm done hearing the second one I'm nearly on top of the first one. It's just not fun.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

Thumbs up

2018-11-27 22:25:56

My understanding is that the UFO catcher is utterly and completely random. Just keep at it until you get what you want out of it. Yeah, I beat the game once and that was good enough for me. I love the game still, but I just don't have the stomach for multiple playthroughs.

Thumbs up

2018-11-27 22:32:44

Turbulant anouncements aren't interrupted. The radar scans forward continuously. The idea of that part is to hear the anouncements, turn around and come back once you've gotten a good read on their positions and their heights. Just go at the slowest speed and you will make it through them. They are definitely the least fun part of the flight system... but this is why your speed is adjustable. Even with buriers and the like, there are times when you have to slow down so as not to smash into them. The only time to go full speed is in a clear stretch of airspace or when you're fighting enemies.

regards,
assault_freak

Thumbs up

2018-11-27 22:34:18

Trust me, I go at the lowest possible speed through any turbulence or even through magic barriers. Greater chance to destroy them that way. As I say, it just gets repetitive failing over and over, given how utterly mindless it feels to destroy stationary magical barriers.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

Thumbs up

2018-11-27 22:47:59

I'm not saying it's perfect. But for what it is, once you get the locations it's no longer so hair-tearingly frustrating.

regards,
assault_freak

Thumbs up

2018-11-27 23:03:16

That turbulence part of 18-2 isn't actually that bad, if memory serves, just pass the first one at height 1, then fly upward as soon as you hear the beep that indicates you passed it. If you're flying decently slowly, you have plenty of time to react.

"I used to be an adventurer like you, then I took an arrow in the knee."
guards, skyrim

Thumbs up

2018-11-27 23:07:50

I gave up on that game at level 3. I just couldn't figure out all the climbing and jumping. It was way too much. Having said that, I would try again with a decent guyde of walk through.

Thumbs up

2018-11-27 23:21:42 (edited by assault_freak 2018-11-27 23:22:35)

@13, welcome to mainstream platformers. This is what real games are like... not to slam any of our developers, but it's true. And if people don't get used to how much platforming or climbing there should be, then side scrollers at least will never progress beyond the offerings we get now which is a sad prospect, imo.

regards,
assault_freak

Thumbs up

2018-11-27 23:44:23

Okay, so I got past all that, and did the cave.

But I've just found what I think is a game-breaking bug.

If you start 20-1 and exit the stage, you don't get any more c4. It used to show up in tactical items and now it's kind of not there. And you kind of need it for the rest of the game.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

Thumbs up

2018-11-28 00:53:08 (edited by BlindNinja 2018-11-28 00:55:35)

Nope, the game's not broken at all. Press T and check out the third option.
@zuckuss, if a guide is what you're interested in, check out the one I made a while back, a link to which is in the first post of the main game topic, and is also now up on BSG. It walks you through the entire game for a first playthrough.

"I used to be an adventurer like you, then I took an arrow in the knee."
guards, skyrim

Thumbs up

2018-11-28 02:11:28

Okay, I'm an idiot apparently. I missed that bit.
Figured it out about twenty minutes after writing about it. Now 21.1 is making me pull my hair out.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

Thumbs up

2018-11-28 02:25:45 (edited by nyanchan 2018-11-28 02:26:55)

I admit that the game is designed to be "one of the most hardcore sidescrollers (possibly audiogames)". There will be more evil acts E.G. 21-3, 23-1, 23-2, 24-4 and 25-3 (some of you may have at least thought once "wtf!?"). This is about 70% intentional; I wanted the game to be beatable with lots of experiments and communications.
However, the repetetiveness is another story. AAC handled that very well despite its difficulty. Like I have already added shortcuts to 25-3, I may need to consider doing similar things to some of the major "tremendously-difficult acts".
I want the game to be as sellective as possible. If I decide adding some shortcuts, it will be what players can select whether to use them.

I really tend to miss direct messages. If you want to contact me privately, please send an email instead of a direct message.

2018-11-28 02:42:53

I hope you didn't see my assessment of your game as a bad thing. As I said before, lots of people love it, and that's cool.

Just got the idea that maybe I could use the super sniper rifle to kill cameras from a distance. Uh, 25 bullets per camera, at 4k damage per bullet...I do wish the cameras were considerably weaker. Still pulling my hair out, and may in fact drop this for a bit. Experimentation is well and good, but after awhile it gets repetitive, especially when experimentation fails and you die horribly. The sheer amount of security that is summoned when a camera spots you is insane, by the way. I'd expect that kind of punishment on higher difficulties, but maybe not on normal?

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

Thumbs up

2018-11-28 02:55:11 (edited by nyanchan 2018-11-28 02:56:27)

Of course I didn't; what you've said is absolutely right. But I intentionally set the standard difficulty to high and that's what makes this game bk3, so I need to find a good landing point that balances playability and difficulty.
Speaking of the expected playing stile in stage 21, you don't try to destroy cameras. In my opinion, it's easier to dodge it for 21-1 and 21-2. In 21-3, destroying them is almost impossible in the first playthrough.
Cameras extend their detection range when attacked. Normally they can't see objects more than 20 squares away, but when they're shot, they scan 50 squares. So you may want to snype each from more than 50 squares away. If you don't, you're instantly spotted once the camera you shot rotates at you.
Their vurtical range is always 5. This doesn't change even when they're damaged.

I really tend to miss direct messages. If you want to contact me privately, please send an email instead of a direct message.

2018-11-28 02:58:15

Yeah... if you actually play the stealth missions as stealth missions, that would probably take away a lot of the hair pulling. lol Remember that you can use the grappling hook to get to places. On subsequent playthroughs you can destroy cameras, but as Yukio said, probably more frustrating to destroy them than actually sneak around them.

regards,
assault_freak

Thumbs up

2018-11-28 03:01:13

When being stealthy, I always get hung up at the point where I'm supposed to drop down near 115-26. There's a one-square-wide little pit, and if I drop there I die. But if I try and jump it, I fall over a ledge, get stuck against a wall, and still die. That's the bit I'm not always sure of. Which part I'm supposed to fall down, and how the heck I'm supposed to continue. I have the guide, but it's a little vague in places. An excellent resource in general though.

Did not realize that cameras got super-vision when attacked, and that means I'm just not going to bother trying to kill them. You're quite right, there's no point. Maybe on higher difficulties if I've got better weapons and hundreds of thousands of HP, if I ever get that far. I know you wanted us to be stealthy though, and that's cool. It's just brutally punishing when you get it wrong. Thankfully dying doesn't seem to have any real negative consequence. For levels like these, if anyone's got exact directions, I'd welcome them. I.e., where do I drop, where do I grapple, stuff like that. As I say, the guide I have is good but not great in this regard.

Oh BTW? Favourite boss so far is the burner thing. I think it's neat that it gets faster/angrier as it gets weaker. I still don't get the extinguisher, so I just dump rockets on it.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

Thumbs up

2018-11-28 03:05:17 (edited by nyanchan 2018-11-28 03:07:25)

Also, cameras have very high resistance against bullets. You'd better use blades. Here's a perfect destruction tip from the developer:
s
p
o
i
l
e
r
Target a camera that you want to destroy. stand at 21 squares left or right to it.
Wait for the target to rotate at you and rotate back to the opposite direction.
Quickly take your speed drink and approach to the range where your melee can hit the target.
Hit the target several times.
Once it starts to rotate, run to the another side (cameras cannot see anything when rotating).
Attack with melee several times.
When it starts to rotate, run to the another side.
Repeat this until it shatters into pieces.
This only works when the target is placed on open space though.

I really tend to miss direct messages. If you want to contact me privately, please send an email instead of a direct message.

2018-11-28 03:11:40 (edited by nyanchan 2018-11-28 03:12:36)

I believe everyone won't get angry at me at this point, so I admit that I made the punishment of being spotted to much because I thought everyone would brute-force the level without it. lol
Anyway, although I can't provide detailed walkthrough right now, running past the entire level with super speed drinks still works.

I really tend to miss direct messages. If you want to contact me privately, please send an email instead of a direct message.

2018-11-28 03:59:31

I tried that in stage 21, then eventually decided to beat it the normal way. The flight missions aren't too hard, niether are stages 11, 12, 15 and 16. I actually thaught Carla was a huge help in those stages, particularly 16-4 and 11-4. As long as you don't let her get close to the extinguisher in 16-4, she can whipe out the launchers and let you take out the boss. In 11-4, I let her bring the launcher down to about 5 percent then I finish it off like the game says. Oh and about 25-3, yeh that one's probably the hardest level out of all of them. Clue, getting to the hellacopter on the lift.

Thumbs up