2018-11-04 16:30:20

Note: in this post I'll be saying all I think trying to keep respect. If I get a warning, or even banned, I won't have any regret, because     I've been saying all what I think sincerely.
Alright. Hi there.
I wanted to open a new topic because, I too, wanted to share my thoughts and feelings of what has been going here lately. Since I wasn't directly involved in the walter situation, I'll skip it and I would like to talk about the moderation situation that is currently going on.
First things first, when the BSG topic started, I was noticing (like ou all were) that dark was pretty distant from it, and other moderators such as Aaron, Sebby and Aprone were quite vague about the topic, at least at the starting. I however thought that a big thing  would happen. Infact, Dark resigned. He stepped down from the chief defenestrator position.
After such thing had happened, I thought that the situation would have been rather messy and things would go down deeper in the hell more than they were. I have been confirming this when Jayde got his moderator position (more on that later) and Aprone stepped  down.
When Aprone stepped down, I was wondering if he would have disappeared, or was he going to stick in the forum. Well what I lately found out quite surprised me. Aprone opened up, and spoke about the Walter situation. This made me have some questions.
Why is the moderation team hiding informations from us? Like, it seems as we shouldn't know what's going on because we would not trust the moderation team even further.
Will the moderation team consider changing attitude towards us, and will we be able to have informations without needing to discover things out when situations are messed up and people step down from their position?
Nocturnus, seemed to confirm my point even more. The moderation team, for what ever reason, is more likely hiding or probably not hiding, but is preventing the community to know some important facts. I am not saying that we should know 100% of the stuff, but the essential stuff should be known. A simple "we're working on it", or a simple "we will solve this soon", is not enough and not trustable anymore. We are not kids who can be put to the silence with such sentences.
The quieter you guys will be, the more we'll suspect.
If I was wrong by assuming this, then the 2 moderators, wouldn't speak and open up their selves like that. I never seen them giving this many informations.
I wonder, if there are other things we don't know about and if we should expect even worse things.
Earlier, I've said that I would have been talking about Jayde.
Honestly, when he had been appointed as moderator, I did not know him, and there fore, I didn't have any opinion about him.
But I have to say that he seems to bea power hungry (please do not take this as an insult), I literally have no other definitions.
Why am I saying this?
Simple.
1. When he joined as a moderator, he started by closing the BSG topic, because according to him that topic was going to generate even more damage, while instead, people were solving their issues, and clearing their minds about the topic.
I thought he wanted to shut our mouths because things were not going at his favor after this post.

Jayde wrote:

Aprone, this forum was just getting back to a point where people were calming down. As you well know, the moderator team had reached a point where we'd agreed this would never happen the same way again. You had to walk in here and remove even more dignity not only from Dark himself but from the rest of us, who ultimately have to clean up this mess and deal with all the fallout, deserved and undeserved alike. I understand that you have a right to your feelings and such, but did you really have to do this?

Yes he had, because he could once and for all, speak out loud, and say that he had tried his best for solving the situation, but he got ignored.
Plus, we were able to understand that then some one was trying to solve really the situation, but he got ignored as a reward. Nice, isn't it?
2. He claims that things have to be spoken privately to him (as if he was the al mighty king). Why can't we know what people think? why do you have to avoid that people, know the facts?
3. He warns people that go against his points, not against his rules and he acts in a dictatorial manner in the process. A few examples

Amine wrote:

I'll admit, closing that topic was a dick move. I personaly sau nothing aside from constructive comments on that topic, as far as I know, it has not broken any rules that I know of. But eh, beginer staff members with a happy moderation triger, what can you do. Happens everywhere! I really hope for your and everyone's sake you quit the dark junior act, for you'll but ruin the forums even more.

Jayde wrote:

Moderation:
Amine, referring to the "dark junior act" is both an indictment of Dark and of me. It qualifies as a personal attack on both of us, because it implies that we are both fond of closing down topics. In specific, it cites the precedent set forward in the BSG blog post, where Dark's character was dragged through the mud and back, based largely but not entirely upon this apparent behaviour pattern.
This is your one and only warning on this. You are apprised of the situation, and you know that everything is on edge right now. Under normal circumstances, such a thing would mean the first of many warnings; in our current climate, I will be forced to discuss further action with the mod team if you persist.
To be clear, I do not object to the fact that you disagree with me. Note that many have done so and have not, as yet, received warnings of any kind. Referring to what you see as the "dark junior act" is simply not tolerable in the current climate. It serves no purpose except to inflame tempers and insult people.

Exodus wrote:

"where do I put this so that people see it?" Not in jayde's inbox tongue.
"its a constructive suggestion, not a pm suggestion". I'd say site and forum feedback, it's where the majority of stuff BSG related is currently. That way everyone who wants to see it can see it, and it isn't under some rug rotting away and collecting maggots.

Jayde wrote:

Moderation:
Exodus, consider this your one and only warning on the topic. You are not only mocking a fellow forum member (me, in this case) but you are encouraging someone to go around what I have specifically asked. Continuation in this vein will merit discussion with the mod team to decide further action against you.
I respect that you vehemently do not like what I am standing for right now, and I realize that your feelings might be causeing you to act in ways you otherwise might not, but this is no excuse for deliberately encouraging users to circumnavigate a specific request we have put in place. You have every right to disagree with what we're doing and why we're doing it, but when you attempt to step in and sidestep it after seeing me ask Rocky specifically not to do so, that's calculated refusal to abide by something I am asking you to do. I'm not asking for anything sensitive, or in any way impinging on normal human rights. I'm not doing anything monstrous by asking Rocky to talk to me privately and to not post his suggestion until we chat. Heck, there is every possibility that once I have a better idea of what he's after, I'd be fine with it being posted wherever. I'm not unreasonable. I'd just prefer that certain channels be followed through. Please do not step in the way of me performing my duties as a mod here. Thank you.

4. This is quite difficult to say, and I will try to be carefull in formulating the thing.
It appears, that he's slowly gaining all the power, for the following reasons.
2 moderators have been stepping down already.
other 2 people due to personal lives are not able to maintain the forum.
The other moderator, seems quite afraid to step in where needed, and I've noticed this different times (the battle constant topic) for example.
With that said, I would like to ask, if the forum administrators, could reconsider making the entire moderation team, because the one that is currently in place does not seem capable to run such a community. I am not saying that this is an easy task, but I think there are more qualified people than the one we have now.
It has been clear to me, that this staff is not able to moderate this forum. Therefore, something must be done about it.
I now ask you guys, to show your support, in anyway you want. If you have my same thoughts and if you guys too, think that something must be done, please reply to the post, and show your voice. If we don't do this now, things will go deeper in hell
If instead you have any disagreements with me, please write them here. This was an entire subjective thought and I am aware of the fact that many people will not agree with what I said. If this is the case, explain me where I am wrong.
Regards.

If you want to get in touch with me you can follow me on Twitter
have a nice day.
Paul

2018-11-04 16:49:06 (edited by AlirezaNosrati 2018-11-05 05:42:28)

i do   not want to  choose sides, however i agree with paul.
need to note something though, no one, no human is   very good and honist, all of us  have a little thurst for power, i believe if this mod team leaves, i agree on them leaving but i think that the new mods will be like this,   tell me what's intention of  aprone, the guy in off topic forum, aaron,  jayde, and dark and all of them? they all want power and power and power, don't tell me that you don't believe that they all are doing this to each other to   get chief admin, well that's the truth, no one wants to help us, they all want the chief admin and that's why they all are doing these character assassination and all of them, should be wiped  from this forum.

you can't run from the darkness. we are everywhere.

2018-11-04 16:58:01

In some cases there are people that want power to make our interest. While in other cases, people want power just for the reputation and fame.
Aprone has a good reputation already. By losing Aprone we lost a valualbe moderator.
From all what I can say, Aprone he's sighted, he could say fuck us and our fucked up community and go in the mainstream one. But instead he decided to remain in our community, and he tried to help where he could.
Personally, I don't think Aaron has the personality to moderate a forum, because he's too afraid of the consequences, and he sometimes does not step in where is needed as I said earlier.

If you want to get in touch with me you can follow me on Twitter
have a nice day.
Paul

2018-11-04 17:06:19

Paul, you've certainly raised some valid points here. However, as I see it, Jade above in while moderating was trying to preserve the fragile peace of the already-tenuous  and stressed out situation, hence kind of strictness we see here, so-
jade says:" This is your one and only warning on this. You are apprised of the situation, and you know that everything is on edge right now. Under normal circumstances, such a thing would mean the first of many warnings; in our current climate, I will be forced to discuss further action with the mod team if you persist."
as far as I see here,
makes sense, dude, when you see that the situation is already critical and the guy is trying to inflame it even more, while moderators are busy cleaning the mess.
Exodus says: ""where do I put this so that people see it?" Not in jayde's inbox tongue.
"its a constructive suggestion, not a pm suggestion". I'd say site and forum feedback, it's where the majority of stuff BSG related is currently. That way everyone who wants to see it can see it, and it isn't under some rug rotting away and collecting maggots."
Jade says: "I respect that you vehemently do not like what I am standing for right now, and I realize that your feelings might be causeing you to act in ways you otherwise might not, but this is no excuse for deliberately encouraging users to circumnavigate a specific request we have put in place. You have every right to disagree with what we're doing and why we're doing it, but when you attempt to step in and sidestep it after seeing me ask Rocky specifically not to do so, that's calculated refusal to abide by something I am asking you to do. I'm not asking for anything sensitive, or in any way impinging on normal human rights. I'm not doing anything monstrous by asking Rocky to talk to me privately and to not post his suggestion until we chat. Heck, there is every possibility that once I have a better idea of what he's after, I'd be fine with it being posted wherever. I'm not unreasonable. I'd just prefer that certain channels be followed through. Please do not step in the way of me performing my duties as a mod here. Thank you."
what I don't see here is, the power maneuvering involved you're talking about. As far as I see here, he's saying in a civilised manner not to destroy the peace which he and other mods have been busy making after the chaos.
Rest of the points are valid, and I agree moderators do need to answer regarding those.

Deep in our hearts is a capacity of infinite good or infinite evil. What path we choose is up to us.
In the end, we all have to meet the same fate-the oblivion of nonexistance, an event horizon from where not even thought can emerge...

Thumbs up +1

2018-11-04 17:11:20

HOw are people exactly destroying that so called peace though, this is what I do not get.
I've only saw people having a different opinion than his, being warned in the process.

If you want to get in touch with me you can follow me on Twitter
have a nice day.
Paul

2018-11-04 17:20:25

Moderation:

First and foremost, this topic, and its various components, are happily being discussed elsewhere. We are not ignorant of the issues at play here. Creating another topic to air the same thing is counterproductive and, dare I say, pointless. I'm going to ask that we pick a thread and run with it. If you have decided that this is going to be the thread where we talk about these issues, then please do not post elsewhere saying the same thing. This, in specific, is not a warning. it is a request so that we are not putting out several separate little forest fires at once. Please work with us here to ensure that criticism is not simply spread for greater effect; said greater effect does not happen, and it only means that multiple echo chambers are created.

AlirezaNosrati, consider this an official warning. You are casting aspertions upon several people at once, present and past staff alike, in a way that is unflattering to say the least. This counts as both a form of character assassination and personal attack both (you can't have one without the other in a situation like this), and as such, will not be tolerated. I recognize that you think we are just being power-hungry in order to climb the food chain, but this is not constructive feedback and serves only to insult and otherwise demean those who have, at this time, been chosen to help keep order in the community.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

Thumbs up +2

2018-11-04 17:25:43

pauliyobo wrote:

The quieter you guys will be, the more we'll suspect.

If you want to get in touch with me you can follow me on Twitter
have a nice day.
Paul

2018-11-04 17:27:38

Sorry for double posting. I thought opening a different topic would have been better, rather than writing a long reply in an  other thread.

If you want to get in touch with me you can follow me on Twitter
have a nice day.
Paul

2018-11-04 17:30:43 (edited by AlirezaNosrati 2018-11-04 17:31:47)

@jayde, ban me i beg you, i'll be an example for people to learn, at least i'll do some good and this sacrifice will make me an example for other people to learn

you can't run from the darkness. we are everywhere.

2018-11-04 17:40:50

https://twitter.com/ferrumite666/status … 60033?s=20

PS: Thumb this post up if you're from 1917.

Alexander Ferrumite
follow me on twitter. @ferrumite666.

Thumbs up +1

2018-11-04 17:45:49 (edited by defender 2018-11-04 17:50:01)

@pauliyobo
If your not part of the solution, your part of the problem. Creating additional topics just to spread the misery isn't helping, and some of your questions seem pretty conspiratorial in nature and not based in previous evidence.
I know your trying to help, but I think it's just fanning the flames and making things worse right now, it doesn't mean your concerns aren't valid, but their is a place and a time, and using your discretion in this case is probably a good idea.
After all, what's the end goal here, so you get clarification on a bunch of rules and some dubious mod posts, an apology and admission of guilt, maybe Jade steps down, well it's a pretty hollow victory in the end if the site just dies anyway, and having less moderators will only herald that faster. Until people actually start getting banned for nothing, how about we all please cool it with the martyr complex and stop trying to be hero's?
And if you've got a personal problem with Jade, which it seems like you do, than I think you should take it up with him over PM rather than damaging the already unstable site even more if you really care about this community's long term survival.
I think you should delete this topic.

This... -- Is CNN'.
Well Ted, it sure looks like there's been uh, quite a bit of violence around here
"aaoh, that violence was terrible'!"
Yeah it was, pretty bad.

Thumbs up

2018-11-04 17:52:02 (edited by pauliyobo 2018-11-04 17:54:19)

As I said, I am not expecting people to agree with what I said. I am not trying to be an hero, but I am just trying to give my opinion in a forum where I believe it is a thing everyone can do. If you think that I have something against the guy, or do I want to be an hero, by all means. But I however will tell you that this is not true.

If you want to get in touch with me you can follow me on Twitter
have a nice day.
Paul

2018-11-04 17:53:18

Jayde you are asking for something that is unreasonable.  When that original topic was closed, it was inevitable that other topics would spring up.  It wasn't bad luck or people trying to cause trouble, it's just how things work.  If a meteor struck the server and this whole forum vanished overnight, more forums surrounding blind games would develop.  In a perfect world it may be just 1 new one that is an exact copy of the one that we lost, but that's not always the case.  Some people may have used this forum more for socializing, so a forum more centered around that would form.  Others may have cared more about new game devs, so a forum would arise focusing more on that.  Lastly some sort of blog may spring up to take the place of the news articles that show up here.

The point is, when you destroy 1 thing, it usually breaks into pieces.  Those pieces are going to then grow on their own, which is the natural process.  You cannot then recombine them, or at least such an undertaking would be insanely difficult.  If a meteor ended this forum for a year, even if you then moved everything over and had this exact same place running again, people would have set roots down in the 3 replacement forums.

When the BSG topic was closed, people spread.  They didn't move to an identical thread (something that may have happened if it was accidentally deleted rather than being forcefully closed), but instead they fanned out to focus on the ways they each independently leaned inside that original topic.  Now, those smaller topics have grown into their own things, and will likely continue to do so even though the BSG topic was reopened.  Bringing back the original will not cause the new threads to close.

Even if the original BSG topic would have been the perfect place for pauliyobo to make this post, you can't expect someone to know that post is open for posting again.  The closing of that topic (and lets not forget the warnings to stop it beforehand) have lasting consequences that are completely natural.  Anyone could and would have seen this coming from a mile away, because it has nothing to do with a vindictive community.  The same would have happened if you closed down any of the big threads.

Being upset about the natural order is not going to help you or the mods.  Sure you aren't happy to see things continue to spread, but you have to accept it.  You made a bad move and have to accept that the consequences of that move are not Our problem, they are yours.

- Aprone
Please try out my games and programs:
Aprone's software

Thumbs up +3

2018-11-04 17:53:22

I'm going to agree with Defender. This is not at all helping. The best thing for the moderators to do is to regroup and figure things out. The best thing we can do as users is to give them a fair chance. That being said, I hope no one reads this as I hope the OP does the right thing and removes this topic.

2018-11-04 17:54:31

sorry for double posting.
Mind as well remind you that what I said is completely subjective. What may be an evidence for me doesn't exactly has to be an evidence for you. But thanks for explaining your concerns.

If you want to get in touch with me you can follow me on Twitter
have a nice day.
Paul

2018-11-04 18:11:53

When I referred to acting like a hero I was mostly speaking of things like post 9, which I've seen allot of recently, where people just assume the worst possible thing immediately, which just puts those crazy ideas out their for everyone to panic about pointlessly.
I honestly can't tell what your personal goal is, it seems like your just pushing and pushing, hoping for, something I'm not sure what.
It's kind of like, a witch hunt I guess? Or maybe you just really want the truth, like a news reporter or something, but what ever it is I don't really think it's doing any good right now.
And of course your entitled to your opinions, and it's not like you wrote this in the article room where no one can respond, so I don't believe your trying to stifle discussion which I appreciate, but I'm also entitled to my opinion, and my opinion is that this is just adding to the issue needlessly.
I mean like I said before, you make some good points, but if you would be considerate enough to hold off a bit for things to calm down more so your not just helping to cause more anger, and then make your statements in a less personal way, than that would be allot better.
Like, do you really need these questions answered right this second? with all that's going on with other threads right now? Your answers wont' even be that good with everyone so stressed and busy with other things anyway...

This... -- Is CNN'.
Well Ted, it sure looks like there's been uh, quite a bit of violence around here
"aaoh, that violence was terrible'!"
Yeah it was, pretty bad.

Thumbs up +1

2018-11-04 18:15:35

This made me laugh this morning

AlirezaNosrati wrote:

i'll not choose sides, however i agree with paul.

I like to sleep, Sleep is good,
This is how I do it: Lie on a nice warm cozy bed, and dream dreams about how to rule the world!
Follow @TheGreatAthlon5 on twitter for humorous facts and game updates!
If you like my posts, thumb me up!

2018-11-04 18:17:44

i know my english sucks big cocks

you can't run from the darkness. we are everywhere.

2018-11-04 18:28:33

Aprone, I was actually referring to the post discussing my suitability to be a mod, and the other topic about official questions and whatnot. Those were natural outgrowths, I respect that. This thread was created far later and covers the same material, and thus I see it as somewhat redundant. That's why I recommended that discussion either shift here or try and calm down elsewhere. But I recommended, I didn't demand or insist. As a mod, I made a choice that has helped cause this to happen. This is one step in dealing with the fallout.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

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2018-11-04 18:34:25

While I agree that some of the Jade's actions are kind of contriversial recently and not necessarily right, what I feel is the guy has been thrust into a stormy situation and tried to do his best in damage control. He was polite to people at first, but then people didn't stop pressuring so he thought that some show of force was in order. Which backfired pretty spectacularly and wasn't exactly the right move, I agree. But let's all calm down for a while and give moderation team some time to sort the matter out.

Deep in our hearts is a capacity of infinite good or infinite evil. What path we choose is up to us.
In the end, we all have to meet the same fate-the oblivion of nonexistance, an event horizon from where not even thought can emerge...

Thumbs up +1

2018-11-04 18:35:38

AlirezaNosrati wrote:

i know my english sucks big cocks

Don't worry about it Alireza.  smile
As I'm to understand it, there is an entire profitable industry surrounding that activity.  No matter how good or bad we are at different things, there is always a place to fit in.  You don't need to apologize to us.  big_smile

- Aprone
Please try out my games and programs:
Aprone's software

Thumbs up +6

2018-11-04 18:38:03

OK, now that's actually funny. I just hope that @AlirezaNosrati gets it.

Thumbs up +2

2018-11-04 18:39:08

Oh, and before anyone wonders, why is aaron replying and replying so quickly, I've got some topics that I'm refreshing quite a bit at the moment so I'm trying to keep tabs on discussions a bit and just hoping everything's ok.

Thumbs up

2018-11-04 18:39:18

my only say is: Why make up rules when there are already rules in place?
And Jayde, not every single thing based off of BSG's posted requires a moderation post.
Why I say this is because the main reason we are all over this, is mainly to post our thoughts about what's going on right now.
In my opinion, we need a better moderation team, who can keep things together, while maintaining trust from us users who have beeen with this website for years upon years.
I'm going to just quote  on this one.
The quieter you guys are, the more we suspect.

I'm known as tunmi13 on most platforms.

2018-11-04 18:44:21 (edited by defender 2018-11-04 18:47:45)

You know Aprone, I appreciate what your trying to do, but you seem to be following Jade where ever he goes on the forum and trying to tackle issues you have with what he's saying publicly, rather than just PMing him or something.
I know you can't use mod chat any more but, at this point it looks like you've got a beef with him which I don't entirely disagree with or anything, and maybe I'm reading it wrong and your just trying to help, but maybe you should take a step back and not backseat mod so much, for your own stress levels as much as anything. big_smile
I appreciate that your trying to help the community out by challenging dubious mod choices, but, at this point it's just a running battle of seemingly personal disagreements in method hiding behind well worded posts from both sides, with arguments about even relatively inconsequential statements he's made.and it's taking up allot of attention where ever he goes.
If he's ever to start making good decisions he'll need to not be publicly undermined at every turn, you know what I mean?
I hope you don't see this as me shitting on your work here or anything, after all yoru still making allot of good points and explaining things really well, and I could be barking up the wrong tree like an idiot, it's just the way I'm interpreting it so far...
After all, your not a mod any more, this doesn't have to be your problem, you can just ignore the site for a couple of weeks if you want and let what happens happen, I think it's very easy to get too invested in the situation and be blinded to anything else, but it's just not good for your wellbeing and at a certain point it becomes unproductive, hell I should know!
Hey maybe you should take your well deserved vacation to work on that fast food game that one guy won't shut up about ROFLMAO!

This... -- Is CNN'.
Well Ted, it sure looks like there's been uh, quite a bit of violence around here
"aaoh, that violence was terrible'!"
Yeah it was, pretty bad.

Thumbs up