Right, so sorry to bring this up, but something has been bothering me. While this isn't the topic that you've used your moderation the most, Jayde, this is the topic directly about you. Both threads have seen you being brought up in the drama, though, so I think this concern still applies. You see, aprone once brought up, "While we tend to not moderate threads where we ourselves are already mixed up in some drama (instead asking another mod to step in to be a more neutral 3rd party)..." Why has this not been the case here? Why has only Jayde been the one responding. Where are the other Mods? Is it because that technically this whole thing involves all the mods, so Jayde happened to be the one around? I'm confused.
at 51 good point. we haven't seen anything from anybody else. only 1 mod has been the voice where is the rest. as for what we want well yes i think the whole team needs to be replaced.
No offense meant:
The admins are around, in fact we've seen Nocturnus (possibly NightShade) step down. Check the off-topic room for his post. We also see Aaron, but he's just as quaky and undecided as usual.
No, I feel as if the only way we'll see improvement is by involvement from Richard and Cenderman. Everything I've wanted to say has already been said here, so to watch, wait, and comment further
agree fully with 53, lets just be patient and heard them out, I am sure they have a word or two to say just like nocturnus did (post should probably be cached)
@53 that's true that I'm undecided.
I've been wanting to say something on the subject for a while but have been struggling to put it into words, truly. This whole situation feels like a mess, a situation that Jayde is better suited for than me. I feel I would have been even more harsh if I hadn't reigned myself in the other day. I feel I can't just rush into posting.
jade, better suited for it than you? jade? the person who warns people who disagree with him? Aaron, can you tell us something please? something everyone involved I think wishes to know. Are the other mods really endorsing this behavior from jade? I think you'd help us all and clear up a big point if you were transparent and answered that honestly.
He also keeps inventing excuses to give people final moderator warnings. Are you guys really endorsing this?
All the seats are taken in the parliament of fools.
The ones that are active, yes, albeit some of it.
I'm going to be honest and say that some of you have had this coming.
You wanted action. Jayde's bringing it.
We did not know exactly what he was going to do, but a lot of people like Sebby and Arq are not happy with the way that quite a lot of you are pressuring, and pressuring, and pressuring without stopping. So that's at least two who approve, I partially approve of his actions but I do not think he should have closed the blackscreen topic the way he did. As for people posting topics worried they will get banned, they're taking this too far themselves. I feel extremely sorry for Nocturnus that he thinks this way, because, on my watch, he's not going to get the ban and that post is not going to be edited, a mod would only edit a post if absolutely necessary and I've only seen maybe three or four posts edited out the entire time I've been on this forum, and that's a long time.
I would not say that some of you are acting civil now. You aren't swearing, sure, but you are causing stress to some the likes I've never seen before. Harshness does not cut it. Some of the stuff I've seen here recently has shocked me. I'm not seeing a protest either.
This is a forum, not a country, not a democracy. It's a place for people to talk about games and other topics of interest.
It's a place that has been recommended to mainstream developers.
Yet some of you just shoot down other's ideas saying that companies do not care, and you do it in such a way that it sounds negative.
Some of you engage in word wars and drama.
Some of you are far too impulsive for your own good.
It's always the same people.
As to who, that's not my place to say. I think some of you should know who you are, and if you don't, then I have no words.
I wanted this place to not be some sort of strict forum.
But some of you have caused this, temporarily more so. I feel like we're in a, if you will, state of emergency so of course things are going to be heavy handed more so than usual but when this is over it will not be as bad and you will be able to continue to discuss things, that's the aim anyway.
#59 (edited by Ethin 2018-11-04 03:38:00)
@58, we have every right to be as harsh as we have. Jade is going way too far and we feel he is doing so. If you can justify the reasons for Jade's harshness, and make it actually sound reasonable, go ahead. I would like out that, just because we wanted action, we did not expect this kind of action. We do not tolerate arrogant dictatorial behavior like Jade is exhibiting. We do not tolerate dictators of any kind. If you want to moderate, you must be fair, you must be rule-abiding, and you must set an example, and that is something Jade is amazingly failing at. If jade had not acted so harshly and forceful, and did not try to control us like a dictator/totalitarian government, and did not try to suppress the rights we are all granted under our countries constitutions and laws, and did not make up rules on the fly to fit the situation, and instead showed us that he would be good moderator material, and did not close topics for nonsensical reasons that only make sense to him, and did otherwise not act irrationally and force us to send him private messages for suggestions, as well as many other things, none of this would've happened. But as he has done this, this has happened.
I'm sad to hear that, aaron. People are worried that they will get banned because jade himself has stated multiple times that if we post anything that could be conceived by him as protesting against the mod staff, we would get banned for a couple days to quote, cool off. I'm very sad indeed to see that this is what the staff of a forum that this community has loved for 13 years agrees with.
At 58, I do see what you are saying. Indeed, I think people, (I'm sure even myself included), have been pretty harsh with the mods here, but this is not the way to solve it. I get why everyone is acting as they are. Even the mods. As I said in this topic once before, everyone's scared. There's this big obvious line between us and the mods now. It's almost like the mods have declared war on their own members. Can you blame people for being scared and worried that they will be banned or anything else? Same to the moderators. You have been kind of backed into a corner here. Usually, when wrongdoing is being investigated, the investigation usually goes up the chain. In this case, it went nearly directly to the top followed by the event of said head resigning. Then the mistrust continued to grow. The community became more and more volatile, and the mods couldn't get a grapple on the situation, so they chose to try to get a handle on the situation by force. The result, though was predictable. When you apply pressure to something, it applies pressure back. The result was two forces applying pressure against one another and resulting in the situation we have now. There really are only a few endings left to us, now.
1. The discontented members leave and never return.
2. The members relent.
3. The moderators relent.
5. The moderators ban every person who is discontent with them.
6. The webmasters show up and effectively hit the reset button on this whole project.
7. The webmasters have a solution that would satisfy most of the people here.
Hmm. That's a decent list of options, actually. That being said, if I missed any, please let me know. The worst part about all of this is that no one person can pick one from that list. Accept the webmaster involved ones, we would have to decide the others together, and it seems we are not doing a fine job of working together here. I'm also sure that richard and sander want nothing to do with this if they can help it. I sure wouldn't. Especially if I were working on other projects. That being said, I think those are our only options right now, so something has to happen.
What is option 4?
I do agree with Aaron that Jayde might have closed that topic too hastily. I might ask you all where you stand after recent events. Walter has been unband, dark and Nocturnus have stepped down. We are working on figuring out a new ban system and updating the rules. We can't update the rules right now, as Richard and Sander have to make it accessible from the admin panel. Personally i don't feel like anyone is deserving of a ban right now. Yes words are a little heated and there are people with passionate views to express. Just for the record, the staff decided that Jayde would make a fine mod, we were in agreement there.
All the seats are taken in the parliament of fools.
#65 (edited by jack 2018-11-04 04:13:31)
Ok, but let's be honest - Aaron does have a point. Apart from people who have come out with either a sort of final remark, whether that be exposing what happened or admitting their stake in what happened, a lot of this has been, to put it lightly, harsh. Ok, so let's see. We have Dark's stepping down. Then we have Aprone coming in to bring to light some more behind the scenes concerning the interview, the situation in general, and the wind-up to what just happened. Turtlepower admits her stake in the situation. In the midst of this, the moderators are trying to set this forum on the right course, to actually! make sure this doesn't happen again. To be clear, when Aprone explains the implications of and surrounding Dark's stepping down, I don't think that he was trying to ignite yet another dispute, he was simply trying to explain the situations for our sake. Then we have the regulars of this argument who've been in it since day 1 coming back with the usual, still unsatisfied, even though technically the score has either been settled, or is actively being settled. Those same people who say they want a proper retribution are the same people who want, and sometimes advocate, for a reform as well. Well, most of them anyway. Those same people also state that part of making sure this doesn't happen again is making sure everyone has all of the information. Well, we pretty much have all of that from the parties involved, so what more do you want? I personally would be entirely for a complete reform without people continually rehashing the situation, I understand trust in the moderator team may be low, and I don't question that at all. However, if mods have indicated that measures are being taken to make sure this doesn't happen again, then you have to choose what will serve the greater good of this forum. I have a feeling that's what drove Jayde to wanting to silence matters. It's one thing to be civil in the sense that we aren't personally name-calling anyone, but it's quite another to be just plain harsh. To be fair, the moderators do not need any of that while they are trying to set things on course. You wanted proof that the moderation team is trying, and guess what, you got that from Aaron in post 58. So I think it is high time we all calm it now that we've pretty much said everything that needs to be said. By the way, Exodus @post 64: Lol! Well played.
Yes, in the time it took for me to write that post, 8 more showed up. No problem!
LOL!!! I must say, well played, Aaron. It's good to see that you at least reject that ending. As for Jayde being a fine mod, I think with some work and training, that could be very true. It is my personal opinion that Jayde should get better at weighing sides, though. No one will be Nocturnus, I admit, but I think he was a shining example of at least what the judge roles of a moderator ought to be. That being said, Everyone's on edge. I think if we could stop demonizing one another that would be good. I think the members want to work with the moderators, it's just, you can't build a good working relationship on faulty trust. If no one trusts one another, we won't get anywhere. I figured rules editing was going to take awhile. For me, this matter became a problem when we had the topic closure. I think what would have been best would have been to try to use non-moderation powers to get people back on track. Promote other topics, or start a good joke in the topic that is making everyone nervous. There's better ways of doing things then constantly poking the bear as it were.
@63, the admins may not be able to do that at this time, however, which is why you contact them and ask them to do that. Thing is, the way Jade is acting I think all of us members can agree feels like attacks against us. He's effectively telling us, "be silent and do not speak up against me or any of the other mods actions or you will be gone!" That is dictatorship. And when he attacks us, we attack right back. He is putting pressure on us to do what he wants, we're pushing right back because we feel that his actions are unjustified. I think that in this instance the mods should be the ones to relent, purely because I believe the community is correct on this instance.
See, Ethin, the problem is that practically everyone is on edge, including the moderators. We're in a tough situation that even they are trying to figure out. Yes, Jayde might've gone over the top, but it doesn't take much time to conclude that this situation is a one no one enjoys dealing with, including the moderators. Not only that, but it naturally induces unneeded stress and pressure on the mods that are trying to figure out what the hell to do next. It's just not the right time to bring up something that, if we're being honest, is pretty much resolved, at least to the point where everyone knows what happened and the blame is placed where it should be.
#69 (edited by cartertemm 2018-11-04 04:32:07)
So Aaron, what are you saying exactly? Your post is here and their, and I'm having a difficult time accurately discerning your stance. The following is based off what I've gathered, so forgive me if I might've interpreted something the wrong way.
1. Dark is out of the picture here. We've crossed that bridge, no reason to go back. So we'll subtract one from your original estimate.
2. Sorry, but Jayde stated quite clearly he would be more than happy to use the ban button when necessary if we were to reply to the topic. So being concerned my account, and I, might see an unwelcome message in the morning isn't without warrant and is in fact totally logical. Of course we're not exactly acting the most civil right now, after all we've been faced with the threat of a ban for simply expressing our opinions against your mighty warrior who was supposed to walk in and valiantly save the day.
3. Jayde is clearly not all that trusted, and with the way he's been going off the hook as of late do you seriously expect us to take his word with more than a grain of salt? After all, he's literally throwing around admin warnings like Halloween candy at a trick-or-treat party. He sites no formal regulations other than those he comes up with on the spot. When confronted we get analogies that make very little sense in context.
4. Your basically saying hey you wanted action. It might be really shady action that makes little sense but at least you got action. You asked for something and we gave you the bad end of the stick but you got something so be happy that you got the stick. Wow man... Just, wow.
5. I've been on the forum for quite a while, before my registration date, and have never seen an admin throw around warnings so loosely. I've never seen this amount of backlash either, and from what Jayde has shown I'm not about to believe anything of his at this point. Nothing, nothing, is out of the question. Anyone could say Nocturnus was distributing material which was never supposed to be made public and knowing the fondness of coming up with rules on the fly, it could be unwarranted. We could see another misstep in an effort to return the forum to a more civil state just like closing of the BSG topic. Everything goes up in the air when the mods of a forum are no longer trusted.
6. As the topic asks, and as we've answered, keeping Jayde in his position of authority would do little other than strengthen the conflict we're seeing at this very moment. I personally vote that Jayde be removed from his mod duties pronto, maybe followed by a reform and blank slate of sorts. And everyone thought we were seeing protest in the original BSG topic... Jayde with his warnings was the straw that ultimately broke the camels back so to speak. Remove the source of the issue and we might have a chance at relinquishing the semblance of trust once shared here.
With all this said, I totally understand where the guy is coming from. What a bad way to begin serving the community, a period where literally every post could be a timebomb ready to explode. I feel sorry for Jayde and what he had to go through, becoming neck-deep in the situation. But sympathy is no excuse for making the decissions he did today.
#70 (edited by Exodus 2018-11-04 04:25:00)
I mean jayde has basically acted like the squad of riot police that show up to kick the ever loving shit out of a group of pieceful protesters, What kind of reaction were you guys expecting?
All the seats are taken in the parliament of fools.
#71 (edited by Sam_Tupy 2018-11-04 04:28:08)
The reason we are not calming it right now is because jade didn't just close that topic. He threatened to outright ban 2 people for basically disagreeing with him. That goes against everything free speech stands for. The thing is, jade was just made a moderator in place of dark, and from the outset it seemed that not many people agreed with the choice. Next jade closes the topic which has a lot of the protesting going on. That protest was civil. Harsh, but still civil. So the newest mod closes the topic, when one of that very topic's points was that we currently don't trust the mods. So then many many more people disagree with jade, and the protesting spreads everywhere. So next, jade threatens to ban people for yes, being harsh, but no, not trying to be insulting. A forum is for people to voice there opinions and talk. Jade is trying to take that away, even if it's just for this incident. No one, is going to stand for that. Maybe a couple odd people won't have as much of a problem with it, but threatening someone with a ban because they disagree is just, to say the least, not OK. You can't just tell people not to protest against that and to not be harsh against such a statement from a mod, because that's not how the world works. You just don't, threaten, to ban someone, for disagreeing with you. You just, don't. So first, jade closes the topic, then, jade threatens to ban 2 people for disagreeing with him, then... then Knoktorness steps down. You can't try to stop people from speaking there opinions on a forum, especially not now. People are literally on the verge of leaving and never coming back. Does that not mean anything to the moderators? The moderators that apparently think that someone who threatens to ban people for disagreeing makes up a good moderator? Do you realize the message that sends? We don't want mods who think it's OK to ban someone for disagreeing with them. That was one of the original reasons BSG made that topic. because dark closed topics when people disagreed with him. So to answer something jack and a few others have said. Why do we continue this when it seems the situation was resolved. We continue it because it hasn't been resolved. Yes, dark was demoted and that's good. Yes, Walter was unbanned and that's good. Yes, the rules are apparently being worked on ASAP which is good. But then, jade was promoted moderator in place of dark, Aprone and knoctorness, which is really, really bad and that is what everyone is upset about now. I repeat, you don't, threaten to ban someone for basically disagreeing with you. No one wants that in a mod, and now another mod has confirmed that they agree that jade makes up a good moderator. We don't want that in a moderator. So yes, many of the issues addressed in smoke's post were addressed. Now we have a new one, and people won't stop being harsh when what I mentioned above comes to pass.
#72 (edited by jack 2018-11-04 04:37:23)
@Cartertemm: I can see where you're coming from, but you're missing a thing or two.
You wanted action. Jayde's bringing it.
We did not know exactly what he was going to do...
So this is not something the mods could've prepared for. Jayde was appointed a moderator position right at the ass-end of this particular storm, so if that doesn't arouse panic I don't know what does. That wouldn't excuse his going over the top with handing moderator warnings like no one's business, except to be fair,
but a lot of people like Sebby and Arq are not happy with the way that quite a lot of you are pressuring, and pressuring, and pressuring without stopping. So that's at least two who approve, I partially approve of his actions but I do not think he should have closed the blackscreen topic the way he did.
I think Aaron's stance one what did and didn't cross the line is pretty clear.
To be fair, we cannot expect the mods to be doing two things at once. Try administering a forum if you haven't done so already, getting presented with this same situation, and rather than prioritizing what's more important, do both at the same time; trying to set things on the right path for the better, while doing thankless damage control. Yes, Jayde ultimately was seen flying off the handle many times, but what got us to that point was some people still egging the topic on to keep going, minus the people that were involved in exposing/admitting to various things to make it clear to us what happened.
So to be fair, the mods have been given enough shit to deal with. Including the new one in town. So before you go saying that he went bat-shit crazy of his own accord, take a good look at yourself - maybe, just maybe, you might've had a stake in driving him to such measures?
You're right Sam, but I don't even think Aaron necessarily agreed to Jayde's closing the BSG topic in the way he did, just as much as Jayde didn't enjoy, or intend, to hit the ban button because reasons. You do have to understand that this situation has practically thrown the user-turned-new-moderator practically out of the frying pan and into the fire as it were. This is not even fair as far as seeing if Jayde is fit to be a moderator or not, because the only time he has been moderating the forum is, well, when everyone's lost their shit.
#74 (edited by UltraLeetJ 2018-11-04 05:23:31)
OK, I will make another edgy, harsh post again, skip it reply to it, please yourself with the freedom you so crave
i have been following this and while I think Nocturnus did show pretty much an end to this whole mess and I am happy we now have probably way more information we would have liked dealing with this whole situation, its just over, period. It is over about 5 days ago, whether you like the result, whether you lust with the result, whether you despise the result, whether you left because of the result (here comes the impulsive stuff Aaron rightly talked about) and guess what? For some reason that I don't quite get (which by the way no one should try to guess at what it is because whoever will do does not even know me remotely and it will just slip by me) I do not give a single darn about all of this, how insensitive and horrible from me, right? Life for me has been the same from last two weeks and today as I am writing this. As I said, this is the internet, take from it what you want and what you will, but allow others to post freely and simply stop fussing about details that will eventually get sorted out (even if you do not like the result). To some users, I feel you are demanding from the administration to o much for something you aren't even paying or working for, that is the only impression I can get from all of this, from post one, to put it mildly. Responding in such a way and in such a short time is a waste of time (not that this would be any of my business) but there is probably something more important to do in life (and oh what a terrible self contradiction I had just made of myself because I am taking the time to actually come on here and post this, right?) but its just a select few that I also notice bringing things back up again with big patriotic words to call themselves representatives of a database of almost 75k users, where are the rest with their concerns in this? One rotten apple spoils the barrel, and its too bad this is all being public for the reasons which have been exactly outlined in post 58.
Some of those replies that I get for my posts are also just criticizing silly points, instead of delving into the bigger issue but to each their own, be assured that I do not care a single bit if you then come with a really constructive response such as "oh, ha ha ha, you have no idea about blah blah blah," or "oh, the irony and flawed logic of your posts". Doing so automatically discredits this as a serious forum, or a community, if there is even one of either to start with.
oh and look, the infamous longish thread been reopened again, isn't that what some of you wanted?
It need to be clarified here that if I personally have the ability to close topics, I have not found it. I was assisted in this by another staff member. I am not tossing them under the bus, nor absolving myself of responsibility, merely saying that I did not act entirely on my own here. That is all.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1