But its not really you, its a pale imitation at best. It's like if you for some reason get paralyzed and can't have sex anymore, or can but can't feel it, will you think its good enough to ask someone to have sex with your girl while you watch? Is that the same, just watching, nah, its no where near the same.
You are really making weird comparisons. Let's make it clear: You like a mainstream game. However, it has a level which is not accessible and you cannot progress further despite the fact everything else is accessible. I've had a bunch of these, and if you have sighted assistance available then great for you, but not everybody does and this is where this could come useful. You people are behaving like every game is fully accessible when you say you can play it yourself. I would be quite happy if that was the case.
Holy shit you guys. This isn't out of the question here. My mom and I used to play rpgs this way. She would do all of the walking around and she would pass the controller to me for battles, and read me the menues. The mob mentality here is frankly shameful.
I did the same actually and it is quite fun. The entire game does not have to be played for you which is what I am trying to explain.
@nidza07, it is possible though to play mainstream games. Accessibility for a mainstream game, while being something nice, is not a necessity. I can play games like Boarderlands2 and Quake 3 Arena, and in both of them, I have no screen reader to tell me where things are, no special auditory help, etc. That's the reason that this mob mentality is here; those who say that this is bad, like myself, feel that it is because we don't trap ourselves into believing that we can't play mainstream games because they're not accessible, nor do we trap ourselves into saying that we always need sited assistance. There is a way to do anything in a mainstream game; it has a defined set of rules and parameters, unlike Reality, so its much easier to work with.
I agreed with post 30!!!!
@Ethin So, you can play any mainstream game just because it has predefined rules? I do know quite well how mainstream games work and I know that you do not need your screen reader to tell you things. That however does not make every mainstream game completely playable. You either stick to one set of games and are happy with it, or are just ignorant to realize that there are millions of games out there and only a small percentage can be completed by somebody fully blind. In my posts, I have never said that mainstream games are not playable. I have just said that not all games are fully accessible, and some besides being mostly accessible to blind players have inaccessible parts. By accessible, I did not mean having a screen reader in the game. I mean everything which makes that game playable for you, be it good sound design, simple level design, easy to memorize menus or easy to do combat, really whatever you feel like adding to that list but you should get the point.
There is a game called vampire the masquerade: bloodlines. The game is a rpg. It has dialog choices, combat among other things. Is this game accessible or playable by someone without sight? No, it isn't. Why? Because things in the game, like choozing a target or talking to a npc require sight. Some games can be played by blind people like metalslug 1. Others, like medal of honor 1, simply can't. I say this with over 18 years of playing video games: I've been playing sinse the age of 4.
just let it go. It's been a norm on the forums lately. these guys post on topics that they are not interested in and state their opinions (which is totally fine), then start arguing and arguing like a 7 year old kid until the thread is just toxic and then dark closes it for good
skype ID: hadi.gsf7
Lol. Post 34. Who are you calling a 7-year old? Have you even tried understanding the other side of the story? Hint: You haven't.
I'm going to step out of this topic after writing this post, because by creating posts 2, 8 and 21 in an attempt to voice what I personally feel is first a valid question and then a valid oppinionI've obviously created a grater controversy than was absolutely necessary. If you want to pay to have your games played or however you see this you have every right to do so. Some of the people who have posted in here have stated they used to play with some family member or friend and had a ton of fun doing so... I'm still failing to see how or why I would pay for such a service to emulate/simulate/immitate somethin that could be a fun passtime activity by other means such as the above family/friend/relations what have you; to me the two are not the same at all.
One person argued that many people have convinced themselves that all games are accessible... I'm not in that camp, but by that same logic I'm not going to delude myself into believing that a game is accessible to me because I pay someone else to play it. If parts of it aren't accessible, I'm not investing time in it, let alone money. I might sit back and watch a youtube speedrun or lets play at some point in time because why not, but paying astranger to play it for me is not only a waste of money but akin to living a big fat lie.
Without prior reading of any other posts except for numbers 1 and 2 on this thread, because I haven't the time right now, I will say:
You're not playing the game or achieving anything by having someone else play it for you. The whole fun in a game is the challenges it presents. Personally when I play a game, I do so for the fun of it - even if that, in my case, means... I.E. Endlessly cursing Aaron Baker as I fall over and over into some god damn corrupted sector and drain 25 extra lives.
Have a nice day!
Also no, I'll also never pay some gamer to play an inaccessible game for me.
"Dude, you're really good at that, for a blind person. How did you manage that? I'm blind too and I want to play that!"
"Aww naw, I got some sighty to do it for me and paid him..."
Have a nice day!
People cling to this gaming thing like its a freaking life saver and they're drowning overboard off a ship. I got better things to do than to fight endlessly with a game I can't play, if I can't play it, I stop. I will try some things first, but I will not pay someone to play it for me. The money isn't even the biggest issue, the issue is you're diluting yourself into thinking you can do something you can't do. We, as blind people can do a lot, but there are limitations. Maybe one day those few real limitations will become a non issue, for instance. Like that episode of Star Trek the Original Series where that doctor woman was blind, and used an elaborate sensor net embedded in her dress to find her way around the ship, and she could communicate with the Medusan ambassador. Maybe we will be able to drive cars, fly planes, or pilot starships in the distant future, who knows. I don't dwell on dreams, but I don't dismiss them out of hand either. What I do know is that hacking the system, i.e. convincing you that you can play a game even though you have to get someone else to do parts of it for you, well, you're not really playing the game are you. You're playing parts of it.
I don't see how its acting like a seven year old to face up to reality. there are mainstreams we can play with little effort, there are mainstreams we can sort of play, and there are some we couldn't play, like sim city or rollercoaster tycoon, because you have to do a lot of reading, and placing objects on a 3D map. Now, some people devote more of their time to trying to play games that are more or less accessible, OK, your gig, do it to it. But, expecting people to pay for a service to have parts of games played for us, I just don't get how that is supposed to make us happy or give us enjoyment. But, if you are someone who thinks that it will, go on and do it, nothing stopping you, my only piece of advice is to not let it dilute you into feeling accomplishment for things you didn't do.
#40 (edited by Ethin 2018-05-08 22:13:37)
I 100 percent agree with posts 36-39. If I can't play a particular game, fine. But no way in hell am I paying someone god only knows how much money to play a game for me. That's a kin to paying someone to live your life for you while you sit back and degrade, or live somewhere remote and unfindable. It won't be fun or interesting. So no thanks.
So who actually forced you guys to pay for this thing? Just asking cause from these posts it sounds really like you already did so and are unhappy. So this is probably my last comment cause people are frustrated over a thing they wont even use... Nobody, or at least I would hope so finds it enjoyable to pay somebody to play an entire game for them. There is definitely no point in doing that, we agree there. For a level or 2 you cannot do however, it is an option. Don't tell me you will pass on an entire game because of one inaccessible level. I just know for myself that I would not. I would look for ways to complete it. In fact, this does not mean I will necessarily pay for this service or something similar, but if people have no other way to do it, then why not? This is not a case where as a blind person you cannot do something so you should just accept it. Well, we as blind people cannot access bios so should we just accept it and never reinstall windows again because we cannot configure boot devices? Why do we bother asking sighted people for help at all? Doesn't that ruin the great experience of hmm I don't know looking at all those great letters? There are so many inaccessible things out there, not just games. The irony of this is that people are ready to pay for Aira, and getting pissed off because of a service somebody wanted to start.
@nidza07, we cannot access the BIOS? Um... correction: you think you cannot access your BIOS. On non-UEFI BIOSes the interface is quite simple; hell, on this computer, the UEFI firmware -- which is what it uses -- I am able to use perfectly fine. Someone tells me what each menu item is, I memorize it... and there we go. The same thing applies to bootloaders; in fact, its a shit ton easier with those because you don't have tabs. But the general layout of my BIOS is:
SATA Port #
OffBoard SATA/NVMe Controller Configuration
ME FW/MB Series/BIOS Version/KB/EC Firmware Rev.
Advanced Chipset Control
SW Guard Extensions (SGX)
Power on boot beep
Battery low alarm beep
Set Supervisor Password
Set User Password
Password on Boot
And then, of course, after that is the boot menu, and the exit/save options. As I said though, a BootLoader like GRUB is really easy to memorize because you don't have tabs to deal with, only a menu that you can easily configure to your liking, which makes it really easy to memorize. (I wish we could do that with the BIOS...). As for the question of 'how can we select devices', that's simple, too. If you know the key to open your boot manager (on this computer its F7), its about guesswork. On UEFI-based systems it will only show the devices connected, and not all the possible devices it supports, along with something like "PXE boot" and "enter setup." If you, for example, have an internal SSD and you want to boot into your connected USB drive, its very easy: open your boot manager, arrow down once, and press enter. That simple. Nothing complex. If you have two internal disks like I do, then its arrow down twice, press enter and your done. On BIOSes its much more complex because they'll display *all* the devices they support, so then it is about guesswork. With time, you can figure out. But the key is to be patient. Don't just give up and think that you can't do something like access your BIOS when you can given enough time and figuring things out. And (I think) practically every computer these days comes with a user manual that describes the physical layout as well as the BIOS menu options and the keys necessary to enter those low-level systems.
And, no, I disagree that "we shouldn't ask for help because it would ruin the fun". I disagree, however, that we should do it for something like a game.
#43 (edited by nidza07 2018-05-09 01:07:46)
Come on dude, nobody needed your BIOS layout to show how smart you are. I can boot my dell Laptop into whatever I want too without sighted help, but first this is way beyond the point and second this is called guesswork, not accessibility. You will initially need sighted help to figure this stuff out. You can certainly do it, but one wrong press and who knows what will you activate without even realizing anything happened. In the boot manager this cannot happen so there it is safe, but in BIOS I would never do that guesswork you just described. Some manuals do indeed describe BIOS options, but first it does not have to be in the order they are displayed on the screen and second as I said, some manuals do. Moreover, how do you know if something is enabled or disabled without asking somebody?
@nidza07 You think one thing. @Ethin You think another. You've argued for like 10 posts now. Your points have been clearly established. Please move on.
Ok, thread police, we will do that.
OK. So, here is my opinion. It sounds like there are two sides to this argument: Those who want to get some enjoyment out of a game by allowing a sighted player to play through some parts of it , and those who assert with absolution that a blind person can get through most, if not everything, if only he/she has patience. I have to say, while the latter argument in my listing tends to be true for many aspects in real life, I tend to agree with the argument that blind players may benefit from allowing their sighted friends, sibling, parent, etc, to play some parts of the game as a way of getting to the playable parts that may serve as entertainment to the blind player. It is especially a bonus, and probably desirable, if the person doing this actually enjoys the game. I remember when I was younger, my sister introduced me to the Sims games. Let me tell you, back then, those games were quite inaccessible. If you don't know, the Sims games are a series of games with the premise being that you could construct a house, buy house items, and find a job. Yes, a life Sim basically. That kind of thing interested me. Unfortunately, the menus had no static structure, audio cues weren't logically panned as we would perceive in audio games, and dialog was in a made up language of sorts. So, the only real fun I could get out of it by playing myself would be guess-and-check trials, which most of the time, yielded undesirable results. Perhaps these games are different now, but back in the day, I was keen on experiencing this game in some way or another because it interested me. So, of course, my sister would play the game, and would describe the actions she was performing. I got quite a lot of enjoyment out of that to be honest! Maybe complete assistance is not what our discussion is about at this point, but all of this is to say that, sometimes, you may need help from someone sighted to get enjoyment out of playing a game. Now, with all that being said and without trying to sound harsh, I am in agreement that I don't think I would pay for the kind of service being offered. It's just a personal thing, I guess. I just feel kind of weird having to pay someone to play through the game for me when I already put up the money to buy it. I'm sure the person offering this has the best intentions, but sadly, I don't think many of us would invest in something like this. Again, just my opinion. Hopefully, noone gets bent out of shape, as it were, for speaking my mind.
Very constructive and well written post, I agree with you. If you have somebody from your family who likes gaming, a sighted friend who likes gaming or anybody else who you know, great and really you do not need the service at all. Not everybody else is that fortunate though, so it is up on us as individuals to choose whether we want to pay or not. People who say that we can get through anything in a game if we try hard didn't play so much games to be honest.
I share the same stance as post 46. It's not a matter of whether or not it's possible to get through some parts of a game, believe me. I'm not dumb enough to think that's always possible. My personal opinion though... is that I just won't play games where I have to get someone else to complete levels for me. I don't want to, simple as that. I play games because I want to experience and say I beat every single little thing I bothered to try, and games where I have to see to do that....well, that defeats the purpose. So fine, if someone wants to use this, go ahead. I never will, because I will never buy games I can't play.
Have a nice day!
I, too, had, and sometimes still have, sighted friends who allowed me to play inaccessible games. And I litterally forced my boyfriend to play with me Green Fandango and Misth - I know, you shouldn't do it but ehi, it worked for a while-. I think it could be a great service for playing turn based rpgs or graphic adventures or everything that requires more thinking than button mashing. This way, the sighted help is only your arm, but you make decision so you're the true player.
I love this idea. though I think he should do a couple of things.
1. Charge what he's actually worth. 5 hours for 12 bucks works out to about $2.40 an hour. As a gamer, I'd pay way more than $2.40 to have a co-pilot guide me through a game I wanted to enjoy. If this were me I'd be charging 5 and hour, but I'd make block discounts.
2. Work on getting some sort of web presence together.
3. Attempt to diversify to other platforms.
There is absolutely a market for this, and for those who think they're gonna use Be My Eyes or Aira to do this they are fooling themselves.
I had to search to find this, but I'm very glad I came across it. Hats off to your friend. It's a brilliant idea.