grate! i'll test it!
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grate! i'll test it!
grate! i'll test it!
sorry but sometime i get problem this say submit, and dont show me my poest in one topic like this, how to fix it?
This topic is sending a fantastic image about this forum. Sorry, but I understand the point about user manuals being hard to understand. However, isn't that where the community would help and improve the manual? In a normal, topic, yes. The least thing I would care is if an app is programmer in BGT unless it cannot provide the functionality other apps can in my specific usage or causes other issues.
@78 Not sure, what the problem is, but you can just delete your double post. there is a link for it at the end of it.
@75 I do use be my eyes, and seeing AI and the rest. I guess I meant things that also can't be used mainstream. I prefer notepad++ and those kinds of apps. BGT can't print text or draw graphics, so if someone came over who is sighted, I'd have to save the work and open it in another app if I wanted to show it to them.
Well, I do think that edit boxes and alert boxes are actually visible on the screen even in BGT.
@81 That makes a lot more sense. Personally I think when a mianstream application can be made accessible it should and specialscreen reader specific applications should only be made if the mainstream version cannot be accessible. There are so many open source projects out there that basically any type of app can be made accessible, since you can contribute its development.
VS Code and Eclipse are some of my favourite such open source projects and are almost 100 % accessible.
@Dragonlee, when I'm having a bad day? Hmmm... I guess. However, I can sort of see Guitarman's point of view. Reading non-native speakers of any language you natively speak is going to be difficult. But people like myself and Ironcross32 have good points about things like this too: this "Ride" is no code editor at all, and is targeted specifically and deliberately at blind people, specifically and deliberately at people who know this forum even exists. The amount of users on this forum (58,740 as of the time of this writing) is approximately 0.018 percent of the US population, and 0.0008 percent worldwide. That leaves out a huge amount of people. Is that bad? Not necessarily. is that bad for this project? Definitely not; 99.982 percent of those people wouldn't care about something so useless. Visual Studio andVSCode do a hell of a lot more than this project will ever do. But what people like Ironcross32 are trying to say is that making things in BGT may aid your success in the blind community, but in actuality will not teach you anything to use in a practical job (i.e. a computer programming job). As I've explained before, BGT has this lock-in sort of thinking, and once you've learned it, is very hard to turn away from it and say, "No, this is useless, time to learn something more complex like Go or Python."
I haven't seen this topic, because I was away for quite a time. I decided to react on all your comments when they are nicely together.
I am open to discuss all issues you are able to find. That includes my english too. Well, it's one true that my english is not perfect. Especially when I type fast and don't control my grammar, it can make various impressions. But what do you mean by my unwillingness to fix it?
That is something I really don't understand. People here had firstly complained about word blinds. Some additional posts were required for me to understand where a problem is because word blinds is according to Lingea dictionary only normal plural of noun blind. Immediately after my understanding that it is a shorthand what I didn't knew before I have edited documentation as well as Ride description on this page and later also topic title.
That were only complains from readers of this topic. Next my personal interest was to increase quality of Ride documentation because people haven't read it. Lukáš Hosnedl contacted me with an offer that he will turn my quickly wrote crap into clearly readable english documentation. He has also made what he promised so now you have also readable documentation.
And after few months you come up and write that I am doing nothing to improve my english. Okay, I accept your opinion, but if you want to make it truly relevant write concrete steps what do you imagine I should do. Otherwise your posts cost nothing.
I think few people here still haven't understood what Ride is. I have given up my effort to explayn technic part to them as I have already written in other topic.
I will try to explayn now why Ride is in BGT because as I see this is still a part of misunderstanding.
Few people probably remember my question asked few years ago about technique to organize code in tree hierarchy. That was my fresh idea and I wanted to know if something like that already exists.
Of course noone was able to give me right answer simply because nothing like that existed.
So I was forced to test my idea myself. We know many ideas which sounded brilliant at they start and have shown to be useless later. I wanted to try out my idea.
Speed was very important because enthusiasm is very important part of our projects. I have needed to fully concentrate on development. So I have needed language which will just work, not disturbing me with basic things like showing window, capturing keys, playing sounds etc.
And that ideal language was BGT. Quick, simple, working, what other could I wish?
It was not important to make second Visualstudio. I wanted just to try out my idea.
I have worked many days, many weeks to take this in life. And my work wasn't useless.
After first alpha of Ride was developed, i found out that it isn't working as I expected. It was working far better than I ever expected and that was what I wanted to know, what I wanted to create.
After this success I published it also here so other devs can say what they think about it. And reaction? Instead of constructive reviews of new technology, I received tons of complayns that Ride is in BGT, BGT is crap, my english is crap, I am crap and so.
Honour to exceptions.
Luckyly I never depended on those guys. Although I am sharing Ride with you because i think new ideas in our comunity should be shared, it is still developed primarily for my personal needs. Thanks to this there is already a C# version of Ride, which fully supports utf-8 encoding used for example by Visualstudio, is fully compatible with Jaws so it doesn't require scripts and use normal Windows dialogs.
Old version of course worked as well, there were only troubles when working with VS projects because they are in utf-8 as I said.
This new version isn't released yet and I don't rush with it. i know that people for some misterious reasons want to use projects like Visualstudio or Eclipse just for their names. Okay, that's their opinion, mine is different and all of us are lucky. So where is problem?
@85, go ahead with the development.
I looked at your first post just now and think this is a nice idea. You're tackling a very real problem and much respect for you for doing this!
You will always have the naysayers around to tear you down no matter what you do, but it is good you are ignoring them and continuing with your project. To everyone who is saying bad things because this is coded in BGT, I have one question: why didn't those people code something like this, years ago, in another language, if they are to be so clever?
So, I think you are doing a great job no matter what language you code it in. In the end, it is functional and solves a real problem. Remember: people will complain no matter what you use (I remember a time when people would complain if someone used Python. I got heat for using .NET to code TDV because of the large download size of .NET Framework.)
So, yeah, to hell with people. They will tell you to use another language but will not find it within themselves to code this project by their own.
One suggestion I have is to also implement a way to divide the program up by C-style blocks instead of just relying on indentation. I don't think it'll be hard to do. Keep up the great work!
Well I would like to apologize if my comments offended anyone. That was not what I was going for.
Now let me clarify, I did not tell him to stop work on the project, those words never came on here. People like it so he should keep working on it. If I did tell him to stop work on the editor, there would be no reason for him to listen to me, I have no authority over him.
I did not say his project has no value either. All I said was there are ides that are fully featured and you don't have to wait for minor updates. I mean eclipse is out there, visual studio, EdSharp, notepad++ and notepad 2, and a couple others.
@Rastislove, I'm sorry if my comments offended you. I don't expect perfect English, all the time, every single day. What bothers me is having to pick through posts by you and others, I have to go letter by letter sometimes to figure out what you are saying. Reading it with NVDA makes it confusing to me. I have no problem with you personally, I think what your doing is great keep up on the ide, it's not for me, but I'm sure other people enjoy it very much! Other people on here misinterpreted what I was saying very badly, so I wanted to let you know what my posts were intending to say. Also, I had no trouble reading your post just now, it looks like your improving, it's good to see that.
@DragonLee, I'm sorry you've lost all respect for me, there's nothing I can do to change your mind, so I won't even try. If my comments offended you on a personal level, I'm sorry, I hope we can move past this someday. Whether you respect me or not matters nothing to me, but I hope we can be friendly on this forum in the future.
lol, you see fanaticism and brand loyalty, we see using things that just work, that have the features we need / want.
It has nothing to do with fanaticism or brand loyalty. If it works, it works, that's fine. I care nothing about brand name stuff, if it's from one person and not a heartless big company that doesn't bother me. If I can get something on the cheap or for free, because it's not a household name, that's completely fine.
You think that if visual studio or the others became inaccessible tomorrow, that I wouldn't use ride? I can tell you right now, I would in a minute! I don't care that visual studio is made and marketed by Microsoft, I just care that it is fully featured, free, and that it has everything I need.
I don't understand why you attacked me in your post, I've done nothing to you. I've made my apologies, you have no reason to get on me, my comments weren't directed at you.
@Guitarman, not sure if that was aimed at you, it might've been. But I certainly wouldn't use RIDE; it does not support compilers, it has no integrated debugger... its nowhere near an integrated development environment. Its not even close to the most minimalist version of Eclipse you could possibly make with the source code of the first version of Eclipse ever made. If this IDE was released into the mainstream market it would be trashed by so many people purely because its made by a guy who doesn't know how to make an IDE in the first place, and uses a scripting language that doesn't allow you to create GUIs, nor does it even allow you to run processes and capture stdin, stderr and stdout. This thing is so far from an IDE its pretty much a joke. The only thing it can do is give you some form of fake code folding and all that. You want a true IDE? Check out https://www.slant.co/topics/10021/~ides. If visual studio becomes inaccessible (which is so unlikely its on the edge of the realm of impossibility since it uses native windows components, which, if made accessible, would make Windows inaccessible too), I'd be far more likely to switch to something like Eclipse. At least with an IDE like Eclipse or Visual Studio you can actually look online and get support and assistance. The only place you can get assistance with this IDE (or whatever little support it even has) is on this forum.
@90 whoa there, calm down bud, first off I wasn't talking to you in that, I was talking to Rastislav, second I think we're a little bit defensive because we realized we fucked up, aren't we. Oh and that we, that was directed at you...
I'm not being defensive. I owe you an apology, I read the post a couple of times, I wasn't sure if that was aimed at me or someone else. I was wrong, and I'm very sorry. I'm human, I make mistakes and get upset, that doesn't excuse what I did though. I'm also sorry if that post sounded angry or condescending, I was just giving my opinion, not trying to come off like a jerk. I wasn't angry wwith you in the first place, I just didn't want to be misunderstood. I hope you can forgive me.
Ethin, you do realize that the developer told you 50 times that this isn't supposed to be an IDE in the first place? If you do not have an use for this, why can't you just move on and post rants in other topics?
As said above, this doesn't aim to become an Ide. It's only supposed to serve as an editor, and so far I haven't found a single moment when I was let down by this. And let me tell you this: this is not code folding. I am yet to discover a mainstream editor which has this sort of functionality for blind coders.
https://addons.nvda-project.org/files/g … =indentnav
That ad on was already posted above a few posts and it's similar to what ride has to offer, but except the fact that ride has more features than just plain navigating.
well, going some apart of the discussion, a few questions:
How ride detects the scopes?
It only looks of differences on indentation with spaces and/or tabs?
Or can be configured / modified for have different behaviors considering brases, brakets or simply special words, like basic (and friends) or ruby.
In ruby for example (a very beautiful language with rails) you can create a coroutine without using braces, or indent. like:
puts 'hello world'
So, respect a new version done in c#, wow it sounds really cool.
I test the first version, but really didn't work for me.
The project i think in general is a good idea, but more than an standalone application, it will be a very, but very nise add-on for bigger ides, like vs or vsCode.
VS have a good solution navigator with some fast navigation throug code, but lettin it going deeper to the code sounds very interesting.
And add something similar for VS code that doesn't have some like that, sounds well.
A, @Munawar if you ask to me, well. I don't made something similar, because with the current features of the vs and vs code (my two main ides) I don't think that some like ride was a good addition... or a must have for try develop something similar.
@nidza07, I'm saying this because its technically being advertised as one. Its not even really a code editor. If you've used code editors than you already know this -- I should not need to point this out to you.
@Amit, yes, the initial design was to make code folding accessible. If you want code editors or IDEs, use actual code editors, not scripts in BGT. You can just make an NVDA add-on or something like it to detect when code folding is in use. I'm not really sure if very many mainstream programmers use that anyway. If I'm wrong, tell me.
@nidza07, I'm also ranting about this because its pretty much a useless program. That's harsh, yes, but nevertheless its true. That is, its useless written in BGT. BGT was not designed to do what this "editor" is trying to do. Load up a massive source file in it and see if it crashes -- it probably will. Detecting scopes? That's not very difficult (unless your like me: someone who puts tuns of brace-requiring expressions inside each other and then loses track of them). But that's easy to solve -- just look back through the code and count your braces, you'll find which ones match and which ones don't. Indentation? Easily solvable -- use tabs, like I tend to do, or use two spaces per level (like I sometimes also do). And, might I remind the OP that indentation is not just a problem in the blind community like post 1 generalizes it to be? The war of tabs vs. indentation has been raging for years and years, going all the way back to the very first assemblers, all the way back to the very first version of assembly language ever written. Also, the OP indicates that you sometimes find yourself in 6-7 levels deep with indentation; this is an extremely uncommon and rare situation to be in. Why, you might ask? Because most languages have shorthands or other alternatives that, if used correctly, eliminate this possibility. If your 6 plus levels deep in a nest, then there's a high chance you could probably modularize most of that code into a function and thereby make it easier to read. If you're so deep into code that indentation and tracking of levels becomes such an issue that you're pressing the tab key 6-7 times, you've got too much code in that area and need to move it elseware (or find alternatives).
OP also writes:
Another problem in programming is, that when you write a lots of code, you don't see forest because of trees. Browsing it by arrow keys, you are crossing many lines you are not interested in, for example in catching keys from a keyboard, everyone have its code block, but if you are editing them, only block that interest you is thatone you want to edit, not a mass of code for other keys, which hovever are distracting you while navigating through them, because you haven't picture about program's work on higher level, only concrete commands.
Again, this is not just a problem for blind people. Most IDEs (Visual Studio included) have this little feature called regions. This is mainly a compiler-based pragma, so doesn't work with C++ (but does with with C#). You can expand a region that you focus on with ctrl+M, x, collapse a region with ctrl+M, O, and expand everything with ctrl+M, L. These hotkeys are known as a cord.
So, I believe I have covered each problem the OP outlined in post 1 and given sensible and easy solutions. While I myself don't use regions in visual studio, I've seen them in action.
In order for an app to be a code editor, it must have, at minimum:
syntax highlighting (or some form of it)
indentation (smart indentation, auto indentation, etc)
Autocomplete (intelli sense, etc)
Brace matching functionality (brace-ish languages only); equivalent for others.
The ability to run a compiler, debugger, interpreter, or any other such program for the software development process.
If a program doesn't have this then its not a code editor; its just an editor. A fancy editor, but an editor nonetheless.
@95 Oh, I thought the main appeal of Ride is it provides indentation navigation. what other features does it have that a main stream editor or IDE like Eclipse, or Visual Studio dont have?
Specifically, what are your favourite features of Ride, particularly the ones that are unique to it?
For example, one feature I like very much is the selection and pasting method of ride. OK, let's see how this works in an editor like notepad. So you select text line by line there you either select vertically or horizontally. Ride only allows you to do vertical selection, but that is very powerful. Here, you can select text by blocks. SO a simple keystroke allows you to select let's say an entire function (including all the code inside), and you can copy, move or delete it all at once. You are not limited to one block at a time, you can select any number of blocks you want to. I don't know weather that is available in any other editors out there, but even if it will be, I think it will probably provide deletion by large blocks like classes, methods etc. But here you can use this method anywhere, if statements loops etc.
Oh and 97, I want to say a few things in response to what you wrote above, however I lack time right now .
Oh my god Ethin, the program is not useless, your posts are. Use visual studio and let people who have a need for it use it, no matter if it is a BGT script, a free pascal script, an autoit script or whatever. If it works, it works.
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