2007-12-02 19:22:44

Hello everyone,

I am doing research for a college paper on haptic technology in video games, like rumble and force feedback. I have a couple of questions, and I would very much appreciate if any of you could offer your perspective on the matter.

First of all, is haptic technology used a lot in audio games?

Would you say it adds anything to those games? Like, does it make an audio game more immersing for you?

Would you say that rumble and force feedback are, or could be, useful features in audio games for blind gamers?

How about rumble and force feedback in conventional games, do they make these games more accessible to blind gamers?

Those are some questions I came up with, feel free to add anything else you wish to say on the subject though. I'm looking forward to your reactions, and again, any answers would be much appreciated!

2007-12-03 06:42:10

Force feedback/rumble could add a lot, however there is an unfortunate cycle in audio games right now.

Very few people buy controllers like gamepads or joysticks etc because very few games support them, and in turn very few games support them because very few people own them.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2007-12-03 07:25:30

Hmmm, I can think of several ways rumble features could be used as another indicator of what was happening in a game environment, for example instead of sfx for your character taking damage, use vibration instead. But as Cx2 said, not many people have invested the money in these sorts of controlers (I certainly haven't), so Devs aren't using them.

there was one game entitled In the Pit, Also i think part of a university project, I believe that took advantage of rumble features, and required a Xbox 360 wired controler to play, found at http://www.studiohunty.com/itp

hth.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2007-12-03 13:59:42

I might be wrong, but I seem to think that Top Speed 2might have had the option to support it too.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2007-12-03 19:05:59

top speed 2, indeed, does support force feedback. my friend showed me the controller (a steering wheel) rumbling on the desk. it was kind of funny. top speed 2 can be found at http://www.playinginthedark.net. note: i believe there may be popups on the website though i could be wrong. also, alien outback, found at www.dracoent.com, supports rumble, as far as i know. i've never tried it myself, since i don't have a rumble-supported gamepad.

2007-12-04 00:19:49

AO doesn't support force feedback, unless there's an update to the game that I don't know about.  The whole reason I got AO was to be able to play with a game pad.  I like it, but force feedback would add alot more IMO.

Force feedback would, to me at least, make alot of games more enjoyable, games like the GMA games, Judgement Day, the BSC stuff, and probably more.

As far as being able to play games with a gamepad, Logitech game profiles FTW.  I made some for most of  the L-Works free games, but lost them all when I had to reinstall Windows.

Brian

2007-12-04 00:24:04

Is the Logitech profiling software accessible? I could imagine some of the software I saw while I was sighted for the purpose being awkward with screen readers.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2007-12-04 10:47:53

Hi.

Talking about gamepads which supports rumble, this reminds me of a little cool adapter I saw in a game-shop for a while ago. It's an adapter which lets you plug a ps2 gamepad to the USB port in your computer, so you can use it in games, like a normal gamepad for the pc. Sounds great, and I think I will buy this adapter, since I don't want to buy gamepads with inaccessible software.
By the way, while I'm talking about software for gamepads: For 3 or 4 years ago, I got a very awesome wireless Logitech gamepad for cristmass. The software was accessible, because the settings could be ajusted in the game options in the control panel. The gamepad supports rumble and all things, but I didn't find it very useful, because there wasn't any games which supports so many buttons or the rumble feature. So I went to the shop, and got another itim instead the gamepad. This gamepad was amazing, but I didn't want to own it because there isn't any games which supports so advanced gamepads. So I think this ps2 / USB adapter would be cool to have.

Best regards SLJ.
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2007-12-04 15:07:45 (edited by dark empathy 2007-12-04 15:08:22)

Personally, I am, and always will be, much more a fan of good old fashioned arcade style joysticks than game pads. I own a multisystem monstrosity called an X arcade stick, which you can buy adapters for various systems for, though at the moment I only own the gamecube adapter.

It's a great joystick, it's huge, apparently bullit proof, and really amazing for games, ---- particularly beat em ups. If you imagine slicing the top off a streetfighter 2 arcade machine you'll have a general idea of what it is like.

I've been considdering buying the Pc adapter for it for a wile now, but I'm firstly not sure on how accessible the software would be, and secondly, the only shop in the Uk which sold them seems to have closed down, so I'd have to order from the states. Stil, if I could get it to work, it'd be great for some of the really fast paced action games such as alien outback or dynaman, not to mention Tank commander or Lw.

On the down side though, it doesn't have a rumble feature.

I'm afraid for me, I don't find joy pads any easier than curser keys, ---- in fact I actually find them slightly harder to use, because of there stupid habbit of putting buttons on the back and expecting you to use your thumb for most things.

If a lot of games started heavily supporting rumble though, I might considder getting one, just for the experience.

But it'd have to be more than just one or two games.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2007-12-24 18:53:40

Thank you for your replies, they've been very enlightening. The deadline for my paper is 8th January, so there is still some time if you feel you want to say more on the subject. But I can certainly work with the current replies; it seems that the main problem with not using rumble is a practical problem, the lack of support for game pads. Once again, thank you all for your help!

2007-12-24 20:33:12

Well as mentioned a time or two the software used to configure gamepads or other controllers is also a concern, since they might not necessarily be accessible with screen readers. Personally I would very much like to swap my old MS Sidewinder Precision Pro stick (the original version no less) for something newer, and also be able to control the deadzone setting. I find it a little twitchy in the centre area, something I had no trouble with when I could play mainstream games because they always seemed to have options to account for this. As it is though it is very touchy in Rail Racer, and so delicate as to be nearly unusable in Lone Wolf. Also for some reason Lone Wolf seems very unresponsive to buttons, so being able to profile them would be nice.

I could imagine force feedback actually working well in Lone Wolf as it happens. Something like using it for when depth charges hit nearby or so on. Guess I'm more of a joystick person than a gamepad person from my own past experiences too.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2008-02-27 16:03:55

Hi,

I'm sorry for resurrecting such an old thread, but I just want to thank you all for your responses. I just got my grade back for the essay, and I got a 9.5/10. I couldn't have done it without your help, so thanks a bunch! Now I'm looking into translating the essay from Dutch, the language in which it was written, into English, and putting it online. If anyone is interested in reading it when I'm done with that (don't know when), let me know and I'll keep you posted.

2008-02-27 16:59:51

I'm sure people are like me very glad to have helped at all.

It would certainly make for an interesting read if it wouldn't be unduly problematic, and might even be of use in accessibility projects like the Game Accessibility Project or for developers. I know the people looking at Second Life for the blind were considering haptick feedback too.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2008-02-27 17:08:07

Hi.

don't worry, it's actually nice to know how these sorts of projects work out, ---- and I'm glad you got such a good mark for your essay.

why don't you post it on http://www.game-accessibility.com/index … efile=home where they generally post articals about such things. It might get people interested in using rumble and force feedback in accessible games, which as I said could be interesting. While it's true most people don't own the necessary controllers, it's also true that accessible game devs haven't implimented rumble in their creations, and obviously movement has to come from both sides, ---- the players and the devs, for something like this and your essay would probably help with that.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2008-02-27 17:13:19

Thanks for the suggestion! I will definitely look into publishing my paper on sites like that Game Accessibility program. I think it's important for developers to know about issues like this, and if I can contribute to that in any way, I'll be happy to!

2008-03-28 20:56:35

Hi guys, I just wanted to say that I finally got the English version online here: http://haggis.googlepages.com/thesensea … hnolog.htm

I'll see if other sites are interesting in publishing the paper as well. Again, thanks for all your help!

2008-03-29 13:45:07 (edited by dark empathy 2008-03-29 13:54:24)

Hmmm, seems that haptic technology is chasing me at the moment, i had a long chat with one chap about it reguarding his research into an accessible interface for second life and uis in general, ---- and in fact right now i'm in the  middle of a conference on qualea and sense experience.

I personally love the sound of some of the devices you mention in the artical, ---- though perhaps not the pain station ;D. but as an immercian and exploration nut, the couch or the vest would deffinately appeal to me assuming I could find playable games which would support them.

I'm interested that you didn't mention the wiimote in the artical, sinse that uses both force feedback and semi-realistic movement to increase a player's immercian in the game.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2008-03-29 13:52:10

About the absence of the Wii remote: I wanted to focus more on tactile feedback, not so much on the input from the gamer. I do want to do more research on gaming in the future, but that all depends on where things are headed. After all, I study history, so I might end up in some dusty old archive. Although I would like to write for a gaming site some day, so we'll see.

Anyway, I'm glad you enjoyed the article, and I hope it will contribute to raising awareness about how useful haptic technology actually is.

2008-03-29 20:29:28

Thanks, I found it most interesting too. I can see how the deaf gamers find it very useful too, so to speak.

Actually I recall something about a vest some years ago under the Aura Interactor brand, I recall reading a review while I was still sighted saying it actually gave feedback on both sound effects and in heavy beats on the music laugh. Also something about a large chair that tried to give similar feedback, which they just thought blasted sound up your derrier and had the only advantage of looking like Captain Kirk's chair.

I too have been involved in the discussion regarding Second Life, and it has opened up a lot of interesting ideas such as using the haptic feedback along with a joystick to allow you to explore the surroundings by touch as a blind person would with a cane. I certainly hope more comes of this technology for us.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.