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AudioGames.net Forum → General Game Discussion → Audio games going by-by!
I just got a horible thought. I want to kno, who thinks that audio games will die out in a couple of years? It sounds aweful, but I think there is a good chance of it happening.
With what's been going on recently, I actually don't know how you chaps can think that!
while I'm fairly scheptical (though at the same time not dismissive), of all the efforts to get the mainstream games industry involved in Audio game developement, the freeware games producing community is growing at a truly alarming rate. with programming power increasing, more freeware and small shareware developers are creating more and more games, and it's surprising how receptive such people are to ideas about Audio games.
We have one living example of such a developer nocking about here on the forum, Lile, ----- or Nio0 as he seems to be known now. for another, see the most recent news item.
then of course, the games created by purely accessible developers are expanding and becoming more complex. I don't know if this is because our devs are just getting better, because the markit id demanding more complex games, or because programming is easier than it once was, but just considder!
In 2000 Jim kitchen's mak racing game was the hight of Ag gaming technology. A limited number of tracks, few Sfx, and no choices of racing styles other than time trial. Also, completely single player.
then in 2004, topspeed 2. Multiplayer support (through server connections), track and even car creation, and editable sfx.
Now, we have rail racer! incredibly easy ttrack creation, many different varieties and variable obstacles (not just 4 kinds of curve as in topspeed), various styles of race, fuel management, car upgrades, nitro power ups, Money, and a very quick and easy track creator, not to mention online multiplayer with betting, tournaments etc.
che martin is even working on an audio online rpg!
A lot of visually impared people seem to take up computing and programming, ----- and that's not counting people here who've started programming early on just to make audio games, and are getting better and better (methinks Lighttech and Dsg will be very major future devs from the way they've been going).
the only slight downer in Audio games I can see at this stage, is that several of the land mark companies like Gma, Bsc, Vip gameszone and (to a slightly lesser extent), Draconis, have either stopped developing games altogether or have moved into other areas. While I think there are more Ag devs, ---- and certainly more devs of serious games, ----- rather than childish or patronizing projects, or game concept type projects which just get submitted by computer science or design students and never actually become finished, it's rather sad that the people who did some of the land mark stuff in Audio gaming are no longer carrying on developement, and we've lost several major players from the serious devs list (which is not, when compared to mainstream games, a particularly long list).
all in all though, I'd say that in the two years I've been mucking about with audio games, there are more interesting projects in developement than I've ever seen at one time before, ---- just witness the amount of news posts tonight!
And of course that's not counting Interactive fiction which just continues, gamebooks,and online text rpg things like Sryth (which is also majorly expanding).
Btw, for anyone who's not played Sryth befoe, I'd highly recommend it! Great atmospheric writing, a nice and easy to learn combat and magic system, plenty of free content, and very frequent updates (and a rather nice community as well). Just Check out the Sryth site here It's truly imho the best text game on the internet, and certainly the only one I've ever bothered paying money for (and at 19 dollars for a year's subscription, it's not loads of money), as I said though, there's loads of free stuff to do as well.
Hi.
Why should Audiogames die? The game-development is going faster and faster.
I totally agree. Sryth is one of the best browserbased games out there. Go ahead and check it out.
hmm. not sure if they'll die or not, but I've both been very busy and annoyed with these childish companies that have cme up, this is why i don't post anymore. i hope they won't, but i don't have much time to play them, either.
I am sometimes concerned they might stagnate, but at the same time there is a lot of untapped potential.
Also I'm personally curious as to whether discrimination laws which state services must be made reasonably accessible could be applied to mainstream MMOs. They are most certainly a service rather than a product, whereas most other game types could be seen as either due to the way the license is used implying any game or piece of software could be seen as a service. Trouble is though we can't afford the lawyers to argue the case, and certainly not against the types of lawyers Blizzard or Sony say can afford.
Dan et al,
I tend to agree with Dark.
There's no indication that mainstream game companies are going to make a lot of audio games.
There's not a lot of profit there. Also, look at the tepid response Michelle Hinn and the IGDA Accessiblity SIG folks are getting right now from mainstream companies.
However, it's getting easier for people with just personal resources to make games, including audio games. In economic terms, a lower barrier to entry, all else being equal, can be expected to result in increased production.
Also, it's easier for a handfull of people like us in Salem to build audio, or at least accessible, games as part of our attempt at mainstream development.
So, in the balance, we'll probably see more audio games rather than less.
BTW. Before we dismiss "kids" please let us recall that Bill Gates was too young to vote when he founded Microsoft.
John Bannick
7-128 Software
Indeed John, 7-128 is one of those shareware groups I was talking about earlier, which is good. I'm not sure about games being a service Cx2, sinse it depends on the essential difference betwene service and pleasure, and how accessible pleasures should be. Of course philosophically (as I'm arguing in my thesis), sinse one of the main characteristics of disability is removal of freedom to satisfy desires, projects like game accessibility would fall under the same heading as, ----- for example, including wheel chair ramps on a theatre.
but I won't get into that otherwise we'll be here all night. unfortunately, as Cx2 says, things come down to the allmighty prophit, ----- and sadly not the religious sort most profits were quite moral and selfless I think ;D.
To just explain what I mean by childish developements. I am not talking about the developers being a young age like rs games. As I said, Dsg is just getting better and better!
Note that when I said service I mean it in the economic sense rather than the philosophical sense. This is where a product is a single item you buy such as a bar of chocolate say, and a service is something like satellite TV or the internet which is ongoing. Since when you buy any software you are buying a license to use it and do not own the software in any way shape or form then this could easily be interpreted as a service, MMOs doubly so since it is an ongoing product.
I guess in the end we think the same through different routes, since to me the cinema is a service and by your definitions it is a pleasure but we both agree they should be accessible. Not as if it would take much work either, just borrow the interface system already used for first person audio games and implement that in the MMO.
Dark - thanks for the front page blog and the ref mention. I imagine that I and a few others like me just enjoy programming. For me, it is a hobby. I know I have not created anything that is "wow". Solaris Prime was a fast spin to prove I wasn't talking through my hat. Made in basic which I know. It is really a Space Invaders type game, but from an entirely different perspective. Which is what I like to do, do things that haven't been done before. Plus it let me work in a genre/medium/style/effect I've never worked in. So I'm learning. Gladiators for me is more fun than Solaris Prime. I imagine I will spin Solaris Prime into Javascript now in midi, if I can, as hosted, as an exercise as a real time game. It is what - 6 meg as a basic executable using wav files for download only? If midi works well enough and in Javascript it will be 200 k bytes for the same game. What you lack in sound quality you make up for in experience of play. Javascript is not the end all of languages. But as I learn more, it will do all I want it to and more it looks like.
I abandond Javascript, and had second thoughts, so I came back to it. Glad I did. Hence - Gladiators is a first exercise effort in Javascript. Not a wow game. But it was a challenge for me as my first Java S program, it is a very small download plus you don't have to download if you don't want to - just go to the site. Got any other language that can do that easily? But it is very small for a download, by comparison of other games out there. And if you like the task of studying your position in a game, it is hard to beat a card game or card/dice and board game. There are plenty of fairly simple study style chance card games out there like this. As I said I like what I do to be different. Plus it is for sighted and the VI and it is on par with the other Javascript games I've seen and better than most I've seen at that site. For me, premise #1 is if it is not liked by the sigted, what makes you think it will be liked by the seeing impaired? Programmers bear that in mind.
Will audio game creation go away? No. As long as there is an audience - people will perform and try and get their attention. I in particular - don't want your money. Again it is a hobby for me. The companies that do provide a product for you are not yet challenged by me or anyone doing what hobbiests such as I do. I'm not sure of that as I have not played too many of their games. But I imagine so.
I discovered this board late May I think. And have learned a lot. What can I do? This medium is still new to me. And I have a lot of ideas and a little time. So as I gain experience in Java S I will create bigger and better games. Am I on par with what is out there yet? No I don't think so. But I do like to do things in ways that have not been done. My text adventures for one. LOL! Can I get there? Yes. Can I surpass them? Maybe. Put them to task as they are my competition - LOL! What makes audio unique for me is it is much easier to create a game in audio that has the same experience for all who play it. A graphical game is programmed much more differently and much more difficult. I have not really tried to make anything really graphical. As I said, the competition in that arena is well above anything I can accomplish in the time I have. But in audio? That levels the playing field.
There are others on this board seeking your attention? Why? They are hobby gamers too I think. Looking for an audience/players. The megatek thing as I recall. Great. Mud groups looking for players. Great. But for them and me it is still a discovery process, what works, what can be better. And like me with Javascript, they may just barely have a handle on what they do now much less change it to fit. They are trying and that is great. I want to see what works too so I can maybe do it better. The race is on!
Dark,
Not a complaint or criticism, but in point of fact, 7-128 Software is anything but a shareware company.
We make a profit selling our memory, word, and mystery games to the Casual Games market, same as Azabat and several others. Our free demos are a marketing tool.
The audio accessibility part (as well as speech control, subtitles, and high contrast stuff) comes because:
1. We don't have venture capitalist greed heads to satisfy.
2. Some of us have a background and interest in accessibility issues.
In a strictly logical sense, the existence of audio-based games companies, and the emergence of new companies, and individuals, producing audio-based games suggests that this type of game isn't going away soon.
Infrastructure is important, too.
As a professional software engineer, forum web sites such as this one, Audyssey, Sun's Accessibility list, etc. are essential for getting information.
I'm particularly impressed with the Game Accessibilty Project for all the resources there.
The health of these sites is another reason I think these games are not going bye-bye.
Finally, there's a lot of personal interest and energy out there.
Ian's Spoonbill games come to mind. A lot of work and a continuing stream of new games.
Thomas, Che, Jim, et al: you know them far better than I. Lots of work, improved games, more games.
And Michelle and company are busting their noogies, as well as spending their personal time and money, trying to get accessibility, including audio user interfaces, into games from Microsoft, Nintendo, and the other bigs.
Nothing makes an activity die faster than lack of interest.
The reverse is true.
Audio games aren't a big profit area, else we'd see more companies doing them.
However, they ain't goin' bye-bye soon.
End of rant.
John Bannick
CTO
7-128 Software
Dark,
Just re-read your earlier post.
VIP Gamezone is still around. I got an email from Igor just this week.
Don't know what they're working on or released recently, though.
John
How can you guys be thinking that? And in my oppinion ACE Games/RS Games has potential! ACE is working on *several* unpublicized projects, I don't know about RSGames though. It doesn't matter how young you are, it matters how mature you are.
True, but it can get a little... frustrating hearing companies being formed and announced with no releases. I'm not saying you won't produce anything, but you can't deny that all this talk that has appeared about them without substantiation can seem to some as being just talk.
Myself I'm not going to take sides, but I have stopped reading the topics on these companies on the whole because I don't think any worthwhile talk will occur until some type of audio demo or other release appears.
ok, ok,
first off, i have sort of, like arjen, stopped playing a lot of audio games, I like to play video games more often it seems even if I can't play the whole game, like playing halo III with my friends for example
also, I thik that some of these little kids companies are stupid, rs games, I lke your game idea about super shot, but audio gamer three sixty, I wouldn't actually say you the most mature guy, not to stir up trouble or anything, it just what I think is all....
Just do as I do, reserve judgement until you hear something about a release. Helps keep you sane 
ok ryan, I said I did like your company, I just know tristin and how he acts
from skype, and I don't think he would be a great head of a games company is all,
Right... first off. If Audio games do die, which I hope they won't, then we go to all the accessible games for the sighted. Even in Dynasty Warriors, I have to blunder around to find things to kill, but so long as it works. See, here's the theory. Any hack and slasher that involves no jumping, but merely pressing of switches can be played with almost no sighted assistance. I would like to see an rpg made that is somewhat accessible, but Coloseum: road to freedom is something that is good already. And if audio games don't die, I hope to see games like Gauntlet: seven sorrows or Coloseum made as well.
Assault_Freak:
Not all of us are interested in such semi accessible mainstream games, for the simple fact they can by definition not be much more than a hack and slash.
Sound RTS, Final Conflict, Tank Commander... these are things the mainstream counterparts of which could not be played.
Hi,
I think there is a good chance that audio games, as I know it, may come close to dying. In fact, they already have! I don't play audiogames much anymore. I play muds and develop. The only big game we have seen this year isRail Racer, which I can't really figure out, and Sarah from PCS or was that last year? Anyway, when I first started playing audiogames, I had Shades of Doom, Monkey Business, GMA Tank Commander, Alien Outback, Lone Wolf, and many others, to play. As for this RPG stuff I am not really interested. So all I have to really look forward to in the forseeable future is Montezuma's Revenge, all I can think of right now. As for Sryph, that's an online text game, not an audio game. And those semi-accessible games, they're just not accessible enough for my liking. They're made by people who think they know about accessibility and probably don't for the most part. See, I played audiogames back when there were tons of new games going up each year. Now, it's declined significantly.
CX2.
I did not say that all were playable, in fact, I fully acknowledge the fact that not all are playable. I'm just saying that to all extent I would like to see some of those games converted. If I knew the code and had the resources, I would do it myself. I have a lot of ideas that would help a lot in doing this. It wouldn't even have to be fully converted to an Audio game, it would simply need extra sounds, not all of which could be designed for accesibility, but part of the ambiance.
And you have to remember, not all are hack and slash. There are a lot of games made by companies like EA games where you can actually upgrade characters and there's a point to just fighting. Fight night, for example. You box... via boxing. And, you can upgrade your character's appreance, fighting style, buy content, etc.
Mike.
Th e so-called semi-accessible games are not made by people who think they have a knowledge of accesibility.
These are simply games for sighted people which coincidentally happen to be accesible.
As for Sryth, it certainly wasn't designed with the blind in mind. It just so happened that it worked well with screen readers. Not to mention we were extremely fortunate that when Matt Yarrows was made aware of how man blind players he'd attracted he was made more, not less inclined to make the game as accessible as he could.
As for Monty, if all goes well we'll all be playing the full version in a month or two. Thomas is pushing for a December release date. Then he can focus on Raceway and the major Final Conflict update and things like that. But I must say i agree that the audio games market has become fairly stagnant these past few years. Like Mike said the only major release this year was Rail Racer (well Sarah in March), but neither of these had what it took to keep my interest for as long as I would have liked.
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