Topic by tomi 2007-01-20 00:18:32

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Hi forum.

I'm tired of seeing 60 % of the programs that I get with a download being too graphical or not working with at software. But most of all, I'm tired of seeing Microsoft's Vista (setup in particular) being unaccessible. As the world moves on, it seems like more companies disregard the blind. We are a small group (100 million total), I know. But look. If this "visual growth" goes on, we're not going to get a chance. And beleive me, it will start after Vista is out. Vista has the new aero. So, companies will implument aero in their products, so more people buy them and say, " this looks cool! " . With that in mind, the blind will be forgotten. Yes, you could make scripts with Jaws. But only about 100 people know how scripting an at program works. It's complicated. Plus, I expect more software to hit the market after Vista. The scriptors will not be able to keep up scripting. Antivirus, and all other programs will convert to a better, more graphical and stylish design. And the world is advancing in technology (in computers the most) faster than ever. Graphic cards are becomming more fancy and capable of more realistic graphics then ever. And we, the blind are left behind.

So, this in mind, I want to start the Computing Accessibility Advocacy Group (caag). Our goal will be to improve current and future computer software and make them "accessible as can be " . I currently have three strategies in mind for this (easiest to hardest) :

1. Set up poles where thousands of people will vote to make a product accessible. It worked for the google captia pole, why not here?

2. Contact the company directly and give them extensive feedback on the product that needs to be made accessible. and the hardest:


Ask for a sourcecode and modify it with the correct changes. Then, send it back to them for approval. So, we need  a great programmer.

Our first target, of course, would be a very small company. Later on, one other target would be Microsoft and Vista setup / ui. Lenovo, sony, and other companies would be contacted and asked to make their system recovery  program use keyboard shortcuts rather then rely on the mouse completely. 

If you want to join, send me an e-mail to [email protected]. please repost this message on many mailing lists. Once we got a few people, work will begin. Please post comments and more strategies if you have any.

Because if we work together, anything can be made accessible.

Regards:

tomi

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Reply by cx2 2007-01-20 18:12:43

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I don't see most companies allowing number 3 ever. It would be open to too many problems to allow a group to access their source, especially without special licensing being negotiated and paid for. It's a noble idea though, don't mistake my intent here, I just could never imagine anyone allowing number 3 even for freeware unless it is already open source to begin with.

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Reply by tomi 2007-01-20 21:18:42

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Hi,

yes, good point on that. I forgot to mention #4, which is to create scripts for an app that works on JAWS  and Window Eyes. I'm not sure if both readers use same scripting commands. I tried JAWS scripting once, but it is complicated with defining all elements on the screen. And, if we do create the scripts, we can ask AT makers to include them in future releases. 

As for source, I'm sure there are a few companies that might let us do it if we tell them our intent and gain lawful permition. I mean, its good to give it a try. For a company like Microsoft, #2 would be the best choice to use. The guys there seem friendly, and I have a friend who has a friend that works with MS . But first, I need to get at least 5 people and then together come up with a good motto. As a group, we would hold meetings and discuss everyones opinions on a product. i would write them down and contact the company via phone or e-mail telling them the problems with the product, and giving them helpful hints. If they ignore this e-mail/call, we will make another attempt at contacting a higher person (assistant/main programmer). Our final option would be option 3, where we would ask for the code. Yes, 98 percent of the time this will be rejected. Obviously we can't use brute force and make a company use our suggestions, so we would move to option 4(scripting).  There will need to be professional scripters.  I know a few things, so if this person needs some help I might be able to give advice. If a program is too graphical to script, then option 1 (voting) would be enforced. We would set up a pole and then send the results to the company. Maybe if they see that many people care, they might just use our techniques /suggestions.

That's how the plan would currently work. It'll most likely change as people give suggestions/tips.  I do hope that this project won't go down like TMS games went.

Regards:

tomi

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Reply by cx2 2007-01-21 19:32:43

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Giving away source code has the potential to let people create unlimited numbers of free clones from it. I don't think any company that charges for the product would ever permit this no matter our intent, since this would be an unknown group. Most people don't even know the blind can use computers even. On the other hand there is a chance with freeware, but then there is the risk they might think you are someone trying to steal their software and pass it off as your own or else do something malicious.

Perhaps you should start by targetting people making open source and freeware programs, with small shareware products at a push... quite a big push I'd imagine to begin with.

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Reply by tomi 2007-01-21 21:14:02 (edited by tomi 2007-01-21 21:20:30)

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open source....   I don'k know many progs that are like that... I  usually get freeware or shareware aps.

But then again, the thing might just close down if no one joins in a few weeks. Only 1 person so far... that's nothing. I am also renaming the group to SAAG (software accessibility advocacy group" 

I'm  thinking of our first target. It has to be an app that is popular and open source. As time goes by, we could go forward a step to freeware/shareware and then to bigger companies like sony, lenovo, Microsoft, and Micro Solutions. But this is still what would be called a dream. My dream of a world where no one has to worry about " is this program going to work with my reder?", and where companies realize that we can use computers. Let's just call it a new age of blind computing. And we gotta take action before all the companies switch to wddm.

Regards:

tomi

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Reply by tomi 2007-01-22 03:18:06

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a huge update: We now have 3 people in place.

1 graphic examiner: This person will tell us how the graphics look in an app.

& 2 reader testers: These nice guys will run the program and test it with JAWS.

We need a genious programer and a genious JAWS / wineyes scripter. Ok, you don't have to be a genious but know 85 percent of you're field. If any of you wish to join, feel free. I am reposting this on freelists as well.

Regards:

tomi

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Reply by parham 2007-01-22 09:49:34

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The thing is, blind mostly are good at programming, somehow, but in IDE's... I think we've got a problem there.

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Reply by tomi 2007-01-26 00:27:18

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Ok, folks... SAAG is not something that I take forgranted because noone signs up. It's not like TMS Games was. That project was a failure. But this will not be. I won't let that happen!


Because of this, we have come up with a reasonable slogan: "saag, the new era of accessibility has just begun!" or something like this. Other slogans that came up were
"saag, accessiblity = reliability, and reliability = stability.". Doesn't that sound like a Microsoft add?

"saag, we're dedicated to the best computer software accessiblity". That seems too long...

"saag, accessiblity is clarity to you're world!" Again, reminds me of Windows Vista, which "brings clarity to you're world!" .

That's all for now. If any of you have comments on our slogan, feel free to intervene.
I'm still looking for a great programmer and scriptor. Without these guys, we will not be able to start with open source software. We would have to start from "the middle of the pool", meaning that with microsoft or lenovo. I just looked at a wordpad.jsc (jaws script), and saw how complicated it is... Really

Our website: We haven't really decided on this, but the best idea is a freewebs site again. We will not need much bandwith. The site would contain all names of the people who are involved in the group and downloadable scripts that we create. Those scripts are a few kb, so badnwith is not an issue. The best idea is to get our own domain, but this seems unavailable with a free website. I don't wanna pay 14 buks a month just to get a domain. Cmon, in 9th grade, you're money is limitted to less then 1000 dollars which might be spent on new equipment and repairs.


So far, I won't make any promises on what we're going to start with. This is still uncertain. I'm trying to advertise this group on many places, but many people simply ignore my requests to do this.

Regards:

tomi

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Reply by cx2 2007-01-26 14:12:31

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I was under the impression there were companies who would host web sites for that much a year. I've certainly seen about

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