2011-07-25 11:02:23

http://www.2loop.com/hsound.html

That's not as engaging as the virtual Barbershop, but it does very well with above and below sound.
Well, clearly they have a great recording setup, right?
Probably, but my old laptop running Windows ME can do it on the fly to wav files:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16520690/soundMaxDemo.mp3
... But only for test purposes.

How in the world do we edit an existing sound file to get these spacial effects?
The internet is exceptionally vague on how sound localization works. It has something to do with pitches and notches. Throw in the word spectral, and that is literally the most detail I've been able to find.

This is one of those ironic instances where being able to see a waveform would probably help considerably.

看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
    George... Don't do that.

2011-07-25 14:42:11

Hi,
The idea of surround sound/3d sound does, indeed, intreague me. It's just a shame there doesn't seem to be an accessible program to be able to minipulate sounds. I could see one working though -- a program where you put individual files in, and then you use the arrows to move them in 3d space. But whether that'd ever happen well, it looks unlikely.

2011-07-25 15:45:09

It seems like it's programmatic. Head-related transfer functions, or something starting with those letters.
But they're not written out in code somewhere. They're all built in to inaccessible commercial programs.
And I'd be more interested in applying it to games, anyway, so even being able to create files that use 3d sound wouldn't really work so well.

And elevation perception apparently has a lot to do with the shape of one's ears and such, so it's possible for people to perceive artificial 3d sound differently just based on having differently-shaped ears...

The annoying thing isn't that it's complicated, so much as that people can and do use it. A very select few people. Anyone that can use the internet has access to programming instructions, basic audio-editting software, Etc. But getting a hold of this stuff is like winning the lottery.

看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
    George... Don't do that.

2011-07-25 16:44:17

CAE_Jones, is it that you're trying to add elevation perception to your games?  Or just 3D stereo sounds?

- Aprone
Please try out my games and programs:
Aprone's software

2011-07-25 17:26:51

... There's a difference? lol

But... yeah... both would be nice. smile

看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
    George... Don't do that.

2011-07-25 17:33:00

Well I guess I should have worded my question differently, lol.  Many of the audio games, I've played, pan a single sound, in order to give it a direction.  It just fades from one ear, to the other, and gets the job done but isn't truly stereo.  3D sound, as far as I understand it, is when you play 2 isolated copies of the same sound, one for the left ear, and one for the right.  You position the sound by playing one sound slightly sooner than the other.  Even the 3D sound seems to do a terrible job of height elevation, so I'm not sure what method it is that they're using.  I assume it is something different, that isn't necessarily lumped in with the traditional 3D sound.

- Aprone
Please try out my games and programs:
Aprone's software

2011-07-25 18:04:27

Spectral peaks and notches, of course! Whatever those are / however those are edited.
The shape of the outer ear applies its own filters, which will vary based on the direction of the sound. The brain does the rest. The easiest way to simulate this in a recording would be with binaural (SP?) microphones stuck in either actual ears, or a dummy head with realistic ears. The poor quality thing I've done by flipping my headphones inside out can sometimes pick up vertical positioning, especially if I've got something behind each ear, but that doesn't do me much good for applying it to sounds that already exist.

As for the horizontal positioning, what I've read suggests our brains use both methods, with one being suited better for low frequency sounds and the other for sounds in the range of human speech. It's actually a little amusing that it sounds like we have three different mechanisms for determining position, but two of those are devoted to the one effect everyone knows how to do already. lol

看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
    George... Don't do that.

2011-07-26 11:51:08

Hi.
These recrdings are simply made by 3d microphons which I don't remember what's called. I don't know how to make this in games, but I think it's something which is build into game engines.

Best regards SLJ.
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2011-07-26 12:12:29

Even if the functions involved are complicated, it'd be nice if one could write a function that handles HRTF, and pass it an object containing audio data, and it could make the adjustments (and quickly wouldn't hurt. tongue ).

The shape of the outer ear causes a complex mix of interference with how it reflects sound on the way into the ear. Why do you have to be involved in a post doctoral research project to learn how to represent that mathematically?

... Of course, my attempts at bending pitch in java have met with utter failure, so even if I were given the necessary equations, I'd probably fail at applying them. But still!

看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
    George... Don't do that.