2006-11-30 02:32:39 (edited by Dreamcube017 2006-11-30 02:41:00)

Ok, hello everyone. I'm new to this forum, but I've been working on something that seems pretty interesting to me at least.

I'm sure some of you have heard of a game called Dance Dance Revolution. It's that dancing game where you're supposed to step on arrows to the beat of the music. Well I'm sure all of you also know that this game is difinatly in no way accesible.

Well for the past few weeks, I've been working on an accessible version of it using the StepMania simulator. That's basically DDR for the computer.

Well anyhow, I made it so that it tells you the steps verbally one beat before they actually happened. I've even come up with a number system for double arrows. That is, two arrows being stepped on at once. But because freese (hold) arrows complicaed things, I took those out. Right now, the arrows are in the MP3, but I'd like to have it one day so that the simulator can say the arrows instead of a person having to put them in the actual MP3 files. This way, any simfile (song) could be used and the freeze arrows would just be turned into normal arrows or turned off. Hm. I thought this post would be longer. Oh well.

What are you guy's thoughts on this. Do you have any suggestions? Would anyone who is pretty good at programming or familure with DDR would like to help, please reply. Or even if you have a suggestion or thoughts on it. Reply as well. ... Ok, all replies are welcome. lol

Even if you aren't very familure with DDR or think that this is harder than the sighted version, trust me, it's not. It's just about the same.

It would run so that both sighted and completly blind people could play it. I'm thinking of calling it DDR-A (Dance Dance Revolution-Accessible) As for talking menues and such, that would come with a specially made theme that's not made yet on account I don't know how to make themes. Also, I think it'd need to have some sort of screen reader not to read the menues, but to read the song titles and such as you can add your own songs or download them from the net.
I've already completed two songs. I'm planning on having four songs to start out with. A beginner song, a standard, a difficult one, and a challenge song.

So... what do you think?

2006-11-30 05:40:03

Hi
I know about this game because my sighted brother used to play it and can you clarify a bit more on how the computer would announce the step before it actually it happens? I'm very interested in your project so keep us all posted on the development and I would like to help in any way I can.
Game Man

Game Man

2006-12-01 03:31:13

Well the sighted version works like this.
At the top of the screen are four target arrows in this order.
Left, down, right, and up. These arrows don't move.
Then there are arrows that scroll up the screen and when the get to the target arrows at the top, then you step on that arrow on the dance pad. So you'd see the arrow before it got up to the top. People say you step on them when they light up for the arcade ones. NO! No, no, and no again. That's imposible. I play this game a lot and that won't work. You have to see them a bit before hand and sort of place them on beat in your head. So like that, the voice (mine's right now. tongue) would say the arrows exactly one beat before you step on the arrow. As I stated, I already have two songs done and am working on more. I don't know exactly how to make another theme for StepMania, but I'll figure it out.

StepMania is basically D D R for the computer. It's a D D R simulator. You can even use a dance pad with it if it's a USB one or PS2 to USB port connection.

Anyhow, once I figure out how to make a theme with talking menues and that can read arrows, any simfile (That is, the song and step data) will be accessible. That might be a while though. Plus, as I said, the voice right now is built into the MP3 file. It might sound kind of confusin and hard sometimes and you might get frustrated at some of the difficulty levels. And if you are, good! Welcome to the world of DDR and kanomi and bemani type music games. Sighted people have the sae problems with trying to figure out exactly where to step and when sometimes when the arrows come a bit fast or a bit off the main beat. This game will take practice.

Hm, I think that's all I can say about it right now. If you want, I can send you one of the songs so you can basically see how it would sound.

Oh, and thanks for your interest.

2006-12-01 04:00:52

Hi
I would like to listen to one of the songs. You can send it to:
[email protected]
and I have another question. Do the arrows come out one at a time or do they come out like two at the same time? I also have an idea as well. Instead of saying the arrows in the MP3 file itself, you could use SaPi or record voices and put it in the program itself.
Game Man

Game Man

2006-12-01 04:48:13

EXACTLY! YES!

That's what I'm trying to do. I want them to be built into the program because then that way, any song made by anyone could be play. There are litterally thousands upon thousands of songs being made into step files and this way, they would all be usable. Be warned, they can get VERY VERY HARD!. But the ones I'm making right now are quite easy.

I'll send you one of the songs.

I'm trying to figure out how to put that into the program. I want to use the StepMania engine because that is the most standard one and easiest to use.

And yes, there are times when there will be more than one arrow at once. Since saying two at the same time won't work, numbers will be used to reprisent these. Here they are.

1=Left and right.
2=Down and up
3=Left and Down
4=Up and right
5=Left and up
6=Down and right

It seems confusing right now, but don't worry. I'm sure you can get the hang of it. But the few songs I'm making now don't have double arrows in them.

There are also arrows called freeze arrows where you have to put your foot on an arrow and hold it there for a cirtain ammount of time. Those don't exist in this version because it would make things way too complicated. That's the only thing this one lacks from the sighted version. But this is ok due to the fact that the origanal D D R didn't have those anyway and plus it's still just as fun. If there are songs with freeze (hold) arrows in them, the freeze arrows will be either turned into normal arrows or taken out completly. I'm going to ask for some help on making a theme. Although the people at the music gaming site might not know much about accessibility, I'm sure if I explain it to them, they'll know how to do it.

As for the screen reader, it'd only be needed to read song names. All the menues and stuff could be pre-recorded.

2006-12-01 07:28:36

Hi
Well for the freeze arrow, you could hold down the space bar for a certain amount of time.
Game Man

Game Man

2006-12-01 08:08:01

Well it's not complicated because of the step chart, it's complicated because there would have to be a different command for freeze arrows. That doesn't seem like a problem at first, but then it gets very complicated.

To make everything run smoothly, every command must be different and they must all be one silable long. If they are longer than that, then it could get confusing on very fast songs. Do you have an Instant Messanger such as MSN or AOL? If not, don't worry about it.

Anyhow, this set up should work to the point where you don't have to use the keyboad. You can use the dance pad just like everyone else.

Did you hear that song I sent you? I have another one where the steps come a bit faster and might seem kind of hard. I know since this is new, I should start out easy, but I just wanted to make a harder songs. There will be more easy ones. Be warned though that songs in this game can get very hard and the accessible songs in the future will be no acception. Hopefully by then though, at least a bata skin will be made so that the program can read the steps to you. Darn, if only I knew how to program.

Well I've asked some people that are familure with the program to help, so I hope I get a responce back.

2006-12-01 16:55:06

Hi
I do have MSN and I was going to ask you if you have it too. You can add me  using
[email protected]
Game Man

Game Man

2006-12-01 17:34:55

dreamcube:
do you have skype?
also, can you  upload one of the songs to a website so i can download it? i do have msn, but i prefer skype.

2006-12-01 23:30:24 (edited by Dreamcube017 2006-12-01 23:33:14)

Yeah, I have Skype too. My name there is Phaze17. Ok, game man I'll add you.

Oh, and I'm afraid I can't upload them. I'll let you hear one on Skype.

2006-12-04 11:17:04

Guys, I will move this topic to the general discussion in two days. Just to let you know where to find it...

2006-12-04 19:46:59

dreamcube: i think i added you. i don't know if i got the right person or not. are you david? if so i got the right person. hehehe. sorry for saying the real name on the forum, but it might be the only way. sad

2006-12-09 19:13:40

You could have Private messaged me you know. neutral

2006-12-09 22:01:40

Hi
There is no private messaging on this form.
Game Man

Game Man

2008-08-02 16:55:41 (edited by Sandra 2008-08-02 18:44:11)

Hi,
is there still interest in this topic ?

I am very interested in your ideas how such kind of games could be better.

I would be very happy about a detailed description of everything that should be changed.

Regards,
Sandra

2010-03-21 09:27:11

I'm a huge fan of rhythm games in general, I always kinda wondered if there was some way to adapt these games for blind people ... but I had some ideas on adapting the number system... just make it correspond to the calculator # pad off to the side:

8 = up
2 = down
4 = left
6 = right

jumps with two arrows would get kinda interesting but let's see:

UR = 9
UL = 7
DL = 1
DR = 3

UD and LR would be harder to correlate I think, but 5 for one and 0 for the other would probably work, you think?

After watching a visually impaired person try to play FFXIII I was inspired to want to come up with *something* that would help them have an easier time navigating the world.... but I think this DDR thing would be a good start.

2010-03-22 13:44:24

Hi and welcome.

Unfortunately as you can see, this ddr topic is rather old to say the least and I'm afraid we haven't heard anything more about it. However, your ideas for rythm action are interesting indeed and I think potentially very workable.

If all ddr commands could be interpreted as single syllables so that they could be spoken before the beat, I don't really think it'd be an issue, and your numerical system is one which I think would be workable, ---- you could even combine wit with some factor such as pitch, or use of a male or female voice to indicate holding or release of arrows.

let us know what you come up with, ---- though I'm afraid I don't personally have a ddr mat or access to borrow one myself.

Btw, as regards navigation around maps in final fantasy or other games, you might want to have a look at some of the other audio games on this site for ideas.

These include a number of 3D first person games such as shades of doom, ---- a 3D fps game based loosely around the concept of the original doom series, Entombed, the first ever full audio rpg/roguelike game, which features a randomly generating dungeon on a top down interface similar to the ff games pluss turn based battle, and (released to public beta only the other day), time of conflict, a huge audio stratogy war game with similarities to civilization, where you command hundreds of different units and cities on a grid based map, ---- the interface for that one and knowing where all the units are is particularly note worthy.

Possibly if your interested in thinking about audio interfaces, some of the techniques employed in these and various others games might give you ideas.

Btw, generally, new project discussions are probably better put in the general discussion forum. This forum isspecifically for the discussion of the experimental audio games released on this website by students on the game design course taught by Richard and Sander, the sites' owners.

Making these sort of suggestions in general discussion might have them noticed more quickly and get more responses.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2010-03-22 22:37:51

yeah, I noticed it was rather quiet on this topic after I replied. sad But I'll throw my ideas out there see if anyone's interested (I do write simple little games with The Games Factory so I could probably come up with some sort of prototype... I'll have to work on that big_smile

2010-03-23 08:34:57

Well anything you come up with would be welcome. My only miner concern from a ddr perspective is I'm not sure how many people would have a ddr mat for control of the game, sinse control wise, most people (including me), use keyboard, and some own various joysticks or gamepads, but I doubt many would have specialized controllers like a ddr mat to test such a thing.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2010-06-04 08:17:58

Has there been any new developments on this? I work with people that are blind/vi, mostly children, and I recently got dance dance revolution for WII. I think this would be a great game to make accessible especially because it gets the kids up and active. I noticed there is an assist mode but it wasn't what I was expecting. Voice output would be great, I was thinking instead of up,down left & right, the clock face could be used i.e. up=12, right=3, down=6 & left=9, maybe double arrows could be numbers in between. Maybe in the meantime until something develops it could be a partner game where a sighted person calls out up, down, left, right for the player that is blind.

2010-06-04 14:52:33

Hi,
I have stepmania and I have dancepads. So I could try it out, but I do not have the files. I tried to contact him, but I never did get the files. Also they are maybe not the best solution it would be really helpful to get an impression.

I have contact to a company who produce a machine dance game. And they have already hand controller, One Button Mode, Two Button Modes on their "todo" list. So there is a high chance that they are going to listen also to ideas for blind people!

Here are the ideas I have: (when something is missing, post it!)
* 3D Audio: a Sound can be heard from the next direction
  but this is difficult: not everyone has 3D Audio, and e.g. left would be front right and back right
* voice: says left, right, front, back
* Sound: each direction has a certain sound
* Voice: says number for the directions

Problems:
We have similar problems like "blind hero" [1].
* The "arrow information" has to be before the arrow has to be steps.
* the timing between the arrow information and the time when to step need to be good placed.
  (maybe this has to be made adjustable)
* we have a reduction in arrow: only one arrow, only easy double arrows?


In the first version, I would put only very easy steps. Then we can see how it works and think about adding more.

[1] http://www.eelke.com/blindhero.html

2011-06-09 11:37:30 (edited by pamlstano 2011-06-09 11:37:41)

Great to show the instruction of game. When i have started it first time it appears that it is easy to move from one place to another place. But after that,i got how it works.