2018-12-05 15:40:47

Hi all,
Firstly, I want to apologize for my absence. End of November and now December are getting very busy. I also owe an apology to the other agnet staff for not posting what I wanted to post to the list: an idea for a roadmap. So, I figured, I'd make it all up to you here, both community and staff alike. I am going to post some ideas in this topic.
1 (i): Firstly: you heard right. This is called agnet admin update. I hope to start one of these monthly, or another mod can join in too. I have not put this to the list I thought I'd surprise absolutely everyone with this as a sort of early Christmas present.
So, what's an agnet admin/mod update?
I'd like to be a bit more transparent. If something cool happens in the previous month, we talk about it, summarise it and give our thoughts. If something comes up like lots of cracking discussions or some things I'm noticing, I talk a bit about it too, just talk about the trends both good and bad, and no real calling out people on things either. Also, if applicable, we say who's being unbanned for the month so that the community can welcome them back on their unban date. Oh and of course the usual staff announcements if any new staff get added, and those will prob be in separate topics too.
The topic will work slightly differently: it will start out closed, but moderators and admins can post in closed topics. I do not know if this extends to staff writers and news posters. Once all admins and mods have posted their thoughts on what's happened throughout the month, if they wish, or, if we haven't received any new posts by the 5th of said month, it gets opened so the community can join in. For this edition, though, as it's the first one, it's staying completely open for the remainder of December. Please, let me know what you all think, community and the rest of the staff alike, about this proposition.
2: Next, let's discuss the audiogames roadmap:
By April 2019, I'd like to have some new staff (perhaps one or two), approval of the rules (I am thinking about making them just a bit more simpler to read for our international visitors), and, finally, an updated site faq, or, even, a mission statement, and for that, I'd like everyone's help, possibly including Richard and Sendermen. What do you want agnet to be? It's important we do not rush this. I am going to be honest, when we started talking about rules, I approached the situation with such urgency in my mind, I was very thankful to Jayde as well for getting that discussion going. But all the drama and such felt very urgent, and I now realize, we have to think things through. Give moderator approvals, think about timezones, and think about who we want especially when it comes to staff. I do not want to rush this. Also when it coems to the new rules we need a proper idea as to what to think about thins like audio described content, and also how to approach the subject of bt sync keys, and, perhaps, each issue be discussed in a separate topic as well although that's up to the community and other mods really, we could just have one topic for copyright discussions and try to settle it all at once but would we be rushing it?
3: Now though, I have in mind some other fun stuff too.
Return of the audio stories for funny site updates: I can't promise every site update will get one, depending on if the staff come up with funny stuff, but if there's a funny story that takes my fancy, such as the oens that Dark does and I think it's doable, I'll work on an audio version of that story. Anyone remember the site called bob, or whatever it was? Also though, this might get even better: if people want to, I might open up this to budding sound designers as well, but, there's more! I don't know if this will be possible, but could you imagine a competition where the winner gets a game or license for something, for submitting the best audio version of the story? Most of the time though it'll just be bragging rights methinks.
Seasonal celebrations, and jokey things: sometimes for April Fools and things, web forums create topics for people to join in the fun. Ironically one of the best and funniest examples of this is Equestria Daily a My Little Pony fansite who creates a theme for their website and completely changes articles for the day, one year it was season 20 for a dday, set the whole website in 2040 or so. Another year they did a parody of cryptocurrancy, sovery silly stuff like that.
I do not know who's signature it was, but this whole idea got inspired by someone who put "the parliament of fools" as their signature, and I think I might like that to be the theme for April 1, 2019! In our current systems, these will work by having a central topic that people can then just post in throughout the day, as our news system does not support tags or filters so we can't make April fool or halloween tags or whatever. BUt, I still don't, exactly, know what the parliament offools will parody yet, and, if the signiture person wants to help us, feel free to get in touch nearer the time because it was your parliament of fools comment that gave me this whole idea in the firstplace.
Oh, and I've got a very silly idea for December already, I was going to start it out today but I figured people will think what the heck is going on so I thought against it, so it might be pushed way back to 2019. Same for Halloween!
So, what do you all think?

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2018-12-05 16:34:09

i really like this idea! It sounds fun! I'm a budding sound designer so maybe i could join in these competitions!

yo! so I'm working on programing, it's really hard. But I'll tell you where you can contact me if your stupid enough to do so.
Contact information:email: [email protected]
Skype: Brennan Draves
I'm usually found on online games, chatting, and being warned bye admins for talking to much, f**k you admin!

2018-12-05 17:19:13

These are great ideas. I think taking things slow is the way to go. I found that's once the drama died down, and i had some time to think, i decided to stay on board as admin. My point, decisions like rules and staff changes should really be given time to be decided and agreed upon.

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2018-12-05 18:30:08 (edited by Jaseoffire 2018-12-05 18:30:40)

Hmm. This is very interesting. I know what you mean about busy, though. It's end of semester and all that for me, so it's been crazy. Anyways, I like these ideas. Definitely best to take things slowly. No need to rush this and make a bunch of mistakes, after all. This is the time where we can have a look at things, and recreate our goals as we see fit. For all the headache this has all been, it has provided us a golden opportunity to recreate the community as we see fit if we want to. If nothing else, it gives us a chance to understand why we do things the way we do them. As for the copyright matter, I believe there was a topic started if someone would like to kick that back up or start a new one. I think it is best to keep it in one topic, though as copyright is a rather lengthy topic that needs heavy scrutiny. Doubly so since the EU is rolling out their thing. Are there any people knowledgeable in EU law that could confirm whether or not that's going to have an impact around here?

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2018-12-05 22:43:16

good one

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2018-12-06 00:02:51

Aaron, I apologize in advance for this. It's probably not as bad as you're apt to think, based on that first sentence, but here we go.

When I saw the title of this thread, my very first thought was "oh great, what's happened now?". This is because no one on list, by your own admission, was privy to any of these decisions or ideas before you posted them publicly. This is the epitomy of taking the reins without any consultation. We're trying to work with you here, and speaking for myself at least, this was a rather unpleasant shock, even if most of the actual stuff in the thread looks relatively harmless, and might actually be fun.
Let me be clear here. I think you've got some good ideas and I applaud the lighthearted touch. I don't think you need unanimous round-table discussion/approval/vetting for every single thing you put across. I just find it a little peculiar that on one hand you're making sweeping pronouncements about an AG admin update, while the update itself basically says "stuff will be slow in coming and much deliberated upon". A very mixed message, to say the least.
In future, I feel that anyone presuming to speak for the team at large this way should consult the list, be they admin or mod. That's just me though, and for all I know, I'm coming across like a stick in the mud. But I value transparency, and this sort of announcement, while appearing transparent, wasn't so much to the rest of the team. Not the end of the world, but I'd rather it not happen.
All that having been said, I like the ideas for the most part. The only piece I disagree with is how long it's going to presumably take to add one or two staff members. In my mind, that could basically be done right now with no harm risked and plenty of gain. The rest of it I'm basically fine with, and approve of, so kudos for the good ideas.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

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2018-12-06 07:21:14

At 6. I am afraid I must disagree here. I think the idea here is this is supposed to be a clear and sweeping announcement to the community, staff included. The idea here is that Aaron wanted to address everyone at once. I think that's more than acceptable as it really isn't a decision, but a public idea. In short, Aaron seems to be speaking for himself. As for the time it's going to take, I both approve and appreciate both the honesty, and time put into something like this. It's very important we don't jump the shark as it were. Haste makes waste and all that. Waiting until April gives time for rest and time to think. I think this plan should not be done in a way that leaves holes and messes because we got impatient and didn't take the time it more than warrants. With the mod team cut pretty thin, with some rather skilled mods having stepped down, the time spent attempting to replace some of the most skilled Mods should not be done lightly. I for one want to ensure that this is done correctly, and if that takes several months, so be it. This needs to be of the best quality we can get.

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2018-12-06 08:22:23

Agree with seven here. Don't rush making people moderators or administrators; I've done that more than once and most of the time they've bit me in the ass. Choose your disciples -- er, followers -- I mean, moderators and administrators... yes, moderators and administrators... carefully.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.

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2018-12-06 14:14:54

Okay, let me clarify here. I'm not saying haste is necessary. It isn't. What I'm saying is that, to me at least, waiting four months is not going to clarify anything. Unless someone really comes out of the woodwork, I already have a couple of candidates in mind for who I'd like to work with as a fellow moderator. I don't need four months or more to deliberate. I have assessed the situation and I think I know what's best. Now, quite obviously I do not and will not presume to speak for the whole team, and others may need or want that extra time. But while some of you caution not hurrying (lest you get bitten in the ass, as Ethin put it), I also caution against waiting just for the sake of waiting. If you know what you want or intend to do, and there's no particularly good reason to withhold a decision, then decide and have done with it. That's not haste. It's decisiveness. I am saying this purely so you folks understand where I'm coming from. the aim here is not to start drama over this. Ultimately if the rest of the team wants to be cautious/slow about the whole staff thing, then fine. I don't agree with it, but having made that lack of agreement known I will not push back with any force. There comes a point where you have to say to yourself, "Okay, you got your point across and you're outgunned. Just let it go", and I'm basically there at this point.

Now, regarding my assessment of the situation as nontransparent? To me at least, the title of this thread makes it look like staff have decided the roadmap for what's going to happen going forward when that isn't true. It's misleading. Aaron does a good job of being transparent within most of the post itself though, and is throwing the floor open. That I'm obviously okay with. I think it's a matter of execution here, which is why I brought it out publicly and why I also acknowledged the good points, because there are plenty olf them. If I was furious with Aaron (which I'm totally not, by the way), or if I wanted to condemn his actions entirely, I'd have taken it to list first, because I don't like team members shooting one another in the back. I tried to walk the line here. So yeah. Bottom line: execution could've been better, IMHO, but I am okay with most of what was said.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

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2018-12-06 14:15:01

agreed with 7 and 8, you can't rush things like this, especially with the places we need to fill and the position we're in right now

yo! so I'm working on programing, it's really hard. But I'll tell you where you can contact me if your stupid enough to do so.
Contact information:email: [email protected]
Skype: Brennan Draves
I'm usually found on online games, chatting, and being warned bye admins for talking to much, f**k you admin!

2018-12-06 15:10:17

Hi,
@Jayde: thank you for your points. In fact, this was something I actually intended to do several weeks back, start out by posting the roadmap on list and to the staff, and going from there, and then, life got in the way, so in the end, I thought it much better, given the situation, to get a roadmap out here, for everyone to deliberate on instead, including the staff.
I will also say this: I don't want to wait until April to start this, I, between January to April, would like to work on a few points, rules, staff and possibly mission statement. The rules are pretty much OK, but I might have a look and work with you on just making them a little bit more simpler to read for the international visitors and a bit more concise, as well as figure out what we should do about stuff like audio described content as I've found it an area to always consider, and if it ends up that we'll have to stop it to keep this website safe, then that's the approach we will have to take. As for staff, I did think about adding a staff member right away a couple of weeks back but then thought against it because I don't want to end up regretting the decision, and it's rather a point I'd approach on list properly.
With the season in full swing I do not know if now is the time, as people are going to be busy throughout December. Thus is why I am thinking January onwards with April as a sort of deadline, give or take, to get this site rolling again, especially with rules regarding things like copyright being a bit more clarified.

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2018-12-06 16:33:58 (edited by Mayana 2018-12-06 16:38:14)

I'm glad to see that there's progress being made, although the lack of communication between the people in the mod&admin team is certainly concerning. But, as mean as this'll seem, can't you speed this stuff up?
I mean, come on! You've already got plenty of people wishing to be mods, there's no wait to push it to freaking April. Same goes for the rules and FAQ, definitely give yourself harder goals than that. I know you have jobs and all that, but the rules are already mostly done, you don't need that many months!
But hey, I guess April 2019 is better than never. smile I'm just one impatient user, and it seems a lot of people disagree with me here. I've posted my opinion, but I don't visit this forum all that often, so I'll be fine either way.

Have a nice day, Mayana.

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2018-12-06 19:19:53

\we saw what happened last time we rushed things. Jayde got accepted into the mod team before everyone had a say, and huge consequences happened, elements of mistrust from the community, a mod stepping down due to not being consulted, and then more mods stepping down for various reasons.
I am not waiting until April, I hope to get the rest of the team and me to sort stuff by the end of, April, and get additions to the team. This means starting out in January, and seeing where we go. Heck, it might even mean rules could get done by February or whatever, staff get appointed at the same time, April's more of a deadline, it's not the month of crunch time, it's about hopefully having a steady stream of progress and working toward something, to be done by the end of April if all goes well. If it's done earlier, so much the better, but it's also better to be absolutely sure as well. I know I'd rather not rush.

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2018-12-06 22:21:23

Aaron, that's a fair point, and thank you for clarifying it. I'd only like to point out that me being added and huge consequences happening had more to do with environment and questionable decisions than it had to do with haste itself. I do not think hiring me was the wrong choice, or even done at the wrong time necessarily. I think we all could've handled it better, is what I'm saying. Self definitely included here. But setting April as a deadline rather than the month of crunchtime means stuff might happen before that. Cool beans. You're right, too; I'm going to Alaska in a week and a half, and while I will be available I probably won't be quite as active. Fourth (final) semester starts for me in January and it'll be back to the books for me, but I can juggle that much. Point is, busy holiday season potentially, nothing needs to be etched in stone tomorrow.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

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2018-12-07 05:04:53

The reason the reason I said to not be hasty is because, while you may have assessed your candidates, Jade, the other admins probably haven't. Ensure the others have heard your proposal and that they've agreed with you before you go making them admins, and all that.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.

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2018-12-07 06:59:27

I agree. Jumping the shark is a good way to get eaten by the shark as a manner of speaking. I for one would also have a problem if  the mod team took all that wonderful time and just sat on their hands for those entire few months, but if the time is spent working on stuff, it will be fine, and I have no doubts that the mod team will spend that time hard at work. Deliberate carefully. There's no way to prevent all issues, but we might as well take this time  to plan for the ones we can think of.

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2018-12-07 09:09:06

This is why I jumped on both a redraft of the rules and an opening up of the floor to potential staff suggestions from the user base, with the caveat that the latter might not ultimately matter, though I hope it will. I did it quickly and fairly thoroughly, and have responded constructively to feedback with plenty of tweaks to make the rules better and easier to understand. I'm not saying it's perfect, but I daresay it's better by loads than what we've got now. Not self-congratulating here. The point is, it didn't take long for that to get to the point it is now.

And even if I wanted to, I can't just go making people staff. Hell, I still haven't been told how to lock topics, much less go rogue and bring on new people. Wouldn't do that without leave, of course, but still.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

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2018-12-07 15:22:25

Hi,
@Jayde I hope you don't misunderstand here, I do not think hiring you was a bad idea at all, in fact I am extremely glad that you are on the team (it's a definite yes from me). Lately I've been considering some of the points that Aprone, Nocturnus and Arqmeister have been making a bit especially when Aprone spoke about him waking up to stuff changing, along with losing Sebby from the team, that one hit me really quite hard. So from now on when it comes to decisions I'm not just going to implement without consulting both list, and forum, first.
Also @Jayde I will make sure that you get some instructions about how to lock topics. That feature should be available to you, and come the new year we can discuss all that.
Let's all of us, staff and community alike, make 2019 the year where the forum gets even more awesome!

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2018-12-07 18:29:28

@aaron, I think you forgot to assign the forums for him to moderate. You need to do that via the administration link in his profile. It should be right underneath the update user group combo box. Check all the forums he should have moderator ability’s in, then hit update moderator assignment and done.

2018-12-08 10:34:54

Hello,
I agree with @7 and @8. @1 It's an awesome idea! I think these things will make everyone active and all the disbalance and grudges will be forgotten in these competitions. My request is, please don't hurry like before, skilled moderators left their ranks due to these, discuss and take decisions. @6 Man, be calm and positive, I don't know why you are ready to jump the gun always. I agree with @13, Past actions are regrettable and I think they should have been discussed properly in the team and our points should have been considered. Please don't do these mistakes again if someone from the mod team itself says that. @17, yes yes, we know you did this and that, we can read the topics, and a moderator can't promote anyone, only admins can do that. Good luck administration team, and I hope the decisions taken are right.

Best regards
Pranam
Go to my website from the below link! And don't forget to give me a thumbs up!

2018-12-08 15:15:40

@Jayde: I've enabled your moderator assignment on every forum.
On each topic page now, if all has worked, you should be able to find links such as stick topic or close topic.

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2018-12-08 17:36:21

Yes, the links are all there now. Thank you. I'm glad it wasn't something I was missing.

And it's not so much that I want to rush, but I'm a big fan of making decisions when you're ready. That doesn't always mean those decisions are correct, not by any means. But we've done this to death. April 2019 is more a deadline than a target month, which means stuff may (and probably will) at least get rolling before that point. Which is good, really. The only criticism I have left is that this was labelled an update and a road map without list consultation. A bit troublesome, but nothing I'm angry or furious about.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

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