2018-11-17 11:20:33

i have just completed the demo.whilst like others i like the concept it is far too simplistic, and i just cannot at present see how it will appeal to sighted gamers. you do not walk around, only to sound beacons for locations, and you are literally guided to where you need to go, to do quests, so it is almost like the game can play itself, because i am blind. i do believe it is a very linear story-driven game, with at present not much explorer, and discovering situations for myself. the audio though, is really immersive, but if the game remains this simple, i feel it can be completed in 2 hours or less by a skilled blind gamer, who are you target market, i completed this demo in 30 minutes.

2018-11-17 11:40:48

Okay I've been playing through the game myself.
I haven't read this topic so forgive me if I repeat points.

The two major bugs I found were firstly that there was no way to exit the blacksmith's menu after I bought the bow, which meant I couldn't finish the demo, and secondly the pause key with enter was broken, I couldn't resume the game, indeed the game paused at odd moments. I also wish the instructions referd to keyboard keys rather than joy pad keys as I don't have a joy pad and exiting to the main  when I didn't know where the left trigger was got mildly annoying.

I submitted a longer response on the  google form but in general I like the game, particularly how the audio was actually quite clear on where you were going, and the world and characters involved, indeed I liked the way the tutorials basically involved the main character remembering weapon classes with his/her uncle.
The problem however is that the game doesn't really feel difficult. The combat works essentially like boppit with hear and hit maneuvers, no chance to judge an enemy and make decisions, just react away. This makes the game basically an arcade game interspersed with an interactive audio drama and a bit of first person navigation.

Its a very good audio drama (i particularly like the naturalistic dialogue and the acting is well done, the silk merchant made me laugh). The  first person navigation in the environments works well and clearly with sound sources well delineated, but I didn't really feel that I was out exploring a dangerous place or that there was much to challenge me. Combat just became a game of hear and react, and most of the open areas in the game had no maze elements, indeed since there is no side stepping or snap to direction keys I assume that the game's layout won't be a mazelike one.

Again, all of this is okay and likely will create a fun adventure game, but I am afraid I'd like to see audiogames developers moving away from this sort of model and actually consider how to create real challenge in audio.
For example, look at the blind swordsman, which, though essentially just a combat reaction game is surprisingly difficult, or what the old Pappasangre games used to do with first person avoidance navigation (shame they're not around anymore).

Of course, this is obviously a beta and your looking for feedback primarily to make the game better, and  I certainly do like the world, story and audio so far (bugs with the smith and joypad keys aside), so its entirely possible that I'll be wrong in the future, indeed if the plan is to have stat tracking, better weapons, larger areas to explore  etc you might well end up proving me wrong generally and I'd love to be wrong.

Okay that's probably all for now, since unless I can work out how to get out of the blacksmith menu after buying something I seem to be pretty stuck in the demo.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2018-11-17 12:13:11

Okay scratch my last post, I found the rpoblem with the smith menu, its the alt key.
I finished the demo and briefly started the game as Alexandra the princess as well as checked the hunting demo.
the hunting is actually pretty cool, and I can understand why the horse quest is there, I'd like to see more of that especially with the animal audio. Also, reading between the lines it sounds like there will be a degree of character management in the game which might be fun if combat remains the same.

I will play through the rest of the demo as the princess, though I am a little disappointed the story is pretty much the same, after all, if we assume a medeival europe sort of soceity there should be a little distinction between  princess and a prince even if this is an era when  there could be a ruling queen.

For instance, maybe prince Alexander was sent to the vale due to the death of some local lord he could take over from but didn't think he'd ever marry since noone would want to marry a blind son, whilst princess Alexandra was sent off specifically as part of an arranged marriage since she could still have children whilst blind and be a link to the royal succession, whilst Prince Alex would just be seen as a liability.

Same with sword play, a blind swordsman is unusual, a blind swordswoman even more so, indeed I was disappointed thad Shepherd's gender and interactions were the same with both characters, since it would've made more sense for her to be less trustful of a man than a woman.

I like the idea of gender switching in a game, but it would be nice if it had at least a little effect on the plot, after all this is hardly a modern world where women would be treated the same way as men by default.

For example, Princess Alexandra might  get some more sympathy in the village due to being a girl, but would risk more nasty encounters with scummy men since they'd perceive her as being weak, whilst Prince Alexander would likely be trusted far less over all for being a man and a stranger, but also would be likely to be seen (at a distance at least), as more capable of taking care of himself.

Either way, just some thoughts.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2018-11-17 13:12:27

the game is awesomeeee

2018-11-17 13:27:04 (edited by arceus 2018-11-17 13:28:03)

I have played trough the game and like dark sayd in his above post, forgive me if I repeat myself. I didn't read the topic.
I found a bug regarding the blacksmith. The items you bought still appeared in his list, and you could buy them again.
another bug is, after I bought the chestpiece and the bracers, the sound of turning remained the same even in the tutorials, as if I had armor.
like dark sayd I tought there would be other reactions from characters regarding gender, but the game asked if that is important in the questionnaire so I guess this will be implemented later.
I liked the village exploration, it wasn't boring at all like Wlomas sayd, although yeah, the combat is easy and surely will be easy for a skilled gamer. I want to remind all about the sentence in the questionnaire, about this combat method being just a preview. It might be like bop it, yeah, but who knows how the game will change?
another bug I found was, at the dog scene, after I battled the dogs, Alexandra was heavily breathing from the combat and both from the scene... which was strange to hear.
another Strange bug was in the hunting tutorial. I managed to shoot the pig without moving towards it, and theo told me to move closer and to shoot it when I was preparing to shoot my urm... next fat pig smile
In the end, I liked the demo and I would really love to see how the game will change in the future.

"Words can light fires in the minds of men. Words can wring tears from the hardest hearts. There are seven words that will make a person love you. There are ten words that will break a strong man's will. But a word is nothing but a painting of a fire. A name is the fire itself."

2018-11-17 14:39:07

high, @49 i'm not reach for buying the new commputers because they are very expencive in my country.
so jamie please make 32 bt version build. thanks

2018-11-17 15:24:09

Okay I've now finished playing through the demo as the princess.
A couple of other things I noticed.
Firstly, there needs to be a key to skip audio scenes and intros and go straight to the action, especially if the game gets more difficult in the future and there are parts that need to be retried.

Secondly, two things which made  combat far easier than it should've been, were the fact that you always here the enemy's footsteps moving from one place to another, and secondly the fact that enemies seemed to have a limited range of attacks, for example that bear only ever attacked from the front or the  left never the right, and the first fight with the two raiders one was always in front and one always on the left.

Even on the boppit scores, simply speeding things up and not having attacks be so telegraphed would  do quite a bit for difficulty.

I also say I rather like the scene in the raider's camp where you can hear the raiders and either run into them and fight them or sneak around them. I had a bit more of an explore of some one off areas in the game such as the cave with the waterfall in the village quest and the areas are nicely large, so hidden weapons or encounters would be nice. I also noticed that the sword you buy from the blacksmith does more damage than your existing one, or at least that bear took a lot more hits to take down without it, that combined with the fact that you couldn't get all of the items at the smith makes me think the game must have some wilderness areas to earn money and maybe get supplies so you can improve rpg style which would be nice indeed.

I mentioned gender issues above, but one particular scene which struck me as a bit odd was the scene with the silk merchant's cousin. I could appreciate that he'd want a tough looking guy standing with him to prove to the unscrupulous fir traders that he had some backup on side,  but walking into a trader's camp with two women, one of whom was blind and which didn't likely look too threatening strikes me as more than a bit strange.

this quest I would write differently according to character gender, EG maybe the prince is asked to go along because he looks tough and the cousin wants a good appearance that might stop him getting attacked, whilst with the princess maybe he asks  her for the opposite reason, that he's afraid of the traders shooting him down before he could get close, then it turns out he was planning to use her as a distraction while he and his cousin got away, (I get that he's not exactly a nice guy).

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2018-11-17 15:55:41

Here are my first impressions after playing the game for half an hour or so.
The game stutters on my laptop. Significantly. I'm using a Toshiba Satellite L855D running Windows 10. I checked this against other games to see if the problem was computer-based. Nope, it was the game.  I also tried turning down the graphics setting. Still no  luck.

Aside from the stuttering, the sound design is pretty good.
One issue I had with the game was the gameplay itself, specifically the combat. The combat is much ,,,, tooo .. slow. For the practice sessions with unclle (sorry, spoiler) I could understand this, it was training after all. But on the road> No one who has ever been in a fight would call that fighting. It felt much too staged. So speed up the combat a bit, enough to give  a sense of realism and immediacy to the actual combat. THe flashbacks can stay as is, since they're training exercises both for the character and the player.

When the wandering fire strikes the heart of stone, will you follow? Will you take ... the longest road?
Guy Gavriel Kay

discord: tayo134

2018-11-17 16:16:23

Everyone else has already pretty much said what I wanted to say, so I won't go on about it again other than to mention the combat again and one more observation. I am getting slightly weary of sighted people who make games for us without asking us what kind of combat we would like to see, but instead presume to know what kind of combat blind gamers could decently enjoy or are capable ofenjoying. I frankly don't understand why developers always feel the need to make combat stationary and telegraphed, when it would be very possible to allow for free movement and a degree of complexity. Both as a martial artist and someone who prizes good combat in games, this bothers me... and this doesn't feel like a mainstream game to bridge the gap, because a mainstream game would never have combat this slow or this easy. I will continue to support this game, but I do wish the developers had done more consulting with more experienced mainstream gamers who are blind. As it is, this is another step toward the right goal... but the execution falls a little short for my taste, for the reasons everyone has already mentioned.
This is a smaller issue, but I am also not a fan of how eerily this game seems to portray the movement of a blind person. For the first few minutes, in order to find your goal, you have to, no pun intended, wander blindly until you find it, all the while hitting walls and hearing your character say things like "hmm, another way then" or "not this way!". Thi sets my teeth on edge... because aside from not giving the equivalent to a navigation beacon for objectives in sighted games that would eliminate needles wandering, it perpetuates the already too cmmon stereotype that blind people cannot move with confidence and constantly bump into things.

Discord: clemchowder633

2018-11-17 16:31:56

Keep in mind that A blind Legend didn't offer a beta test, so the fact that this game is being beta tested means that they are precisely looking for feedback such as this. So this is consulting as it were. As for me, I heard Liam play the game as was very impressed. Sadly, I can't get it to run under Wine 3.0rc1 on Mac, and it crashed my windows 10 virtual machine, or the vm crashed before it could run. Now I could easily be missing a system requirement or two, I have directx11 modified runtime for windows xp and up for Wine's sake, but dotnet framework is having problems installing if that's even a system requirement in the first place.

2018-11-17 16:54:38

I've still not recieved my copy, yall think this is a bug in the servers or something?

----------
“Yes, sir. I am attempting to fill a silent moment with non-relevant conversation.”
“You don’t tell me how to behave; you’re not my mother!”
“Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.” – Data (Star Trek: The Next Generation)

2018-11-17 17:00:05

I probably is, since we all received copies yesterday. or at least, those who received copies did. The build should've went out to everyone on the list. I would shoot them an email and ask, I'm sure they can resend it if need be.

2018-11-17 17:29:52

arnold18 wrote:

Hey all. Agree with what the other's said, especialy post 26. By the way, did anyone get audio stuttering lots of times in the game? Because i did.

Hello,
Yes, I'm also encountering this problem. I don't know what's the fix or it has been discussed here.

Best regards
Pranam
Don't forget to give me a thumbs up!

2018-11-17 17:36:50

Core combat mechanics don't usually change at this stage... but one can hope. I'm simply starting to grow weary of the amont of games with this kind of combat we've seen when Shadow Line, Swamp, and a few others show that more complex combat is indeed possible. This is like the next generation of repetetive combat gameplay... similar to how back about 10 years ago everyone who created action games was making space invader type games. Now the trend seems to be moving towards stationary combat in story driven games. I'm also not a fan of the current way quests are done, as others have said.

Discord: clemchowder633

2018-11-17 18:28:16

Right. I have not read through this topic, but here are my thoughts after playing this demo.
I: The combat. I honestly didn't expect much difference when I heard of the main character being blind. This game didn't disappoint me in that aspect. Now, it might sound that I'm pleased with the mechanics, however, let me assure you that I'm not. I want a more strategic approach. The fights aren't just based on standing and swinging, you know. They involve moving around, watching your enemy, and learning their weaknesses. In that aspect, this beta failed to live up to my expectation. It's another let's play bop it deal, which is starting to be cumbersome.
II: "Describe it to me..." I don't wana be rude here, but, uh, have you actually interacted with a blind individual? Now, forgive me, but I do not think a blind person would ask you for so many descriptions of places. Granted I might be wrong but, assuming the mc has been blind since birth, he won't give that much attention to places. He'd most likely prefer to explore the places in question himself.
III: Another guide, really? I honestly feel like this has been done once too many times. Every game that has a blind character has somebody following him or her... It's just... odd. Do people honestly believe that blind folks require a guide? That can not be farther then the truth...
IV: The amazing tutorials? No, really. The tutorials aren't that bad. What's bad is that the tutorials assume that you're playing with a controller, which was false in my case. Often I got told to press my right trigger or hold down my left stick half way, which I could not do since I was playing using the keyboard.
V: The iffy sound design. No, for the most part the sound design is quite good... however, I do have issues with it. Why does a shield sound like it's made of wood? You do know that swords are sharp, right? A sword would be able to break a wooden shield in 4 swings, max. However, I do not think the mc uses a wooden shield, I think that the sound designers simply forgot to replace the sound.
That's it for now. It's not all of my issues with the game, but those that are listed above are the main ones for me.

2018-11-17 19:01:52

I don't know if there are many large metal clang/hit sounds they had to choose from. I was able to recreate some large shielf impact by mixing a metal thud with a lighter clang impact, but it all depends on what sound libraries they had. A lot of audio is being created in the moment, judging by the audio placeholders, so I'm sure that will be taken into account.

2018-11-17 19:13:09

Hi all. I've finished the demo. All-in-all, I really enjoyed it. I do agree with all said above. I did get some stuttering during a few parts of the game, but, it wasn't a game breaker. I wish we could at least have been able to travel to river town and do things there before the demo ended. I understand this is a public beta, but, I felt it was quite short as well.

2018-11-17 19:42:44

The game it’s really really so fun
I am excited to play the full game

2018-11-17 19:43:50 (edited by Dark 2018-11-18 09:34:33)

@Assault freak I'm not sure what you mean about no navigation beacons, I always found one, indeed one thing I liked about this game particularly was that it made some effort to naturalise the script as regards beacons, E.g "head towards the tavern", rather than "Head towards the sound of a musician playing, that is the tavern"

I agree on combat and moving around as I said, but in terms of a guide, there is an issue.
Sight is a direct sense, people look at things and are able to say This is a chair, this is a house, this is a blackberry bush, this etc. Lacking sight people work on indirect perception, working out that because your in someone's living room, a roughly knee high leather thing must be a chair.
Games however don't have the luxury of letting players make those sorts of judgements because in an audiogame you only have one sense to deal with, hence the need for some sort of guidance, since if you need to go and find the big oak tree  the treasure is hidden in, you don't have time to look at lots of different objects, go through bushes, stacks of fallen branches etc to find the one big oak tree, and of course having your player stumble because they  happened to not see  pot hole wouldn't work mechanically either.

The main character saying "describe it to me" didn't bother me other than the fact that it seemed to make the shepherd come off as a bit dense for not really giving enough info first time around, and I did like the fact that a lot of the object sound design here was less obvious, EG the horse  in the quest was cropping the grass, not clip clopping or neighing just to give a sound to follow.

In general I personally had less issue with the audio navigation as audio navigation in and of itself, I just would've  liked more chances to explore along the way as I said, though as this is manifestly an early beta and the developers are asking for all this feedback  hopefully we'll be seeing more of that in the game soon.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2018-11-17 21:28:10 (edited by defender 2018-11-17 21:49:30)

did anyone else have trouble with positioning the river after the carage tipped, or the horse, in the third tavern quest?
Me and Liam both have some ear issues so I want to hear what others have to say.


Enjoying this so far, the uncle is a great character with a great voice actor, and the sound design aint bad either.
The female voice actor is better though, more emotive, so I played as the princess (not that I really mind...) big_smile
Combat so far is quite boring though :-( but I know that difficulty levels, combos and skills are going to be put in later so I can be patient.


Oh and, kudos to the falling Squirrel sound designers for that fantastic arrow attack at the start of the game, it was unexpectedly intense and very cool!
The dynamic arrow flybys while running to the river were also pretty nerve racking!


Though I find it kinda odd that a female learning how to fight and hunt, own lots of land ETC was never really brought up even in passing considering the time period. It's not vital of course but it does seem like an odd omission... You'd expect some nasty comments from the enemy warriors who try and capture you as well but, no need to raise the game's rating if it's not needed.
I also heard a female enemy warrior, which seems a bit odd, but that's pretty easily explained by that culture allowing it. Rare back then, but not totally unheard of.
The same could also be said for the kingdom your character is a part of, and it's not necessarily historical, it could be alternate universe as well.
I'm probably just over thinking it though LOL

2018-11-17 21:48:57

I'll certainly agree that the story and audio, what I've ehard of it, are pretty awesome. But I will agree that I would prefer it not to be yet another Blind Legend style fight system. That's one of the things that turned me off Echoes from Levia.

But wait, what's that? A transport! Saved am I! Hark, over here! Hey nonny non, please help!

2018-11-17 22:17:27

Regarding shields:

Shields weren't just made of wood and metal--there were hide bucklers and leather shields as well--something AHC gets right. Still seeing stuttering on my end--possibly it has as much to do with the fact that I'm running an insider build of Windows 10. I'll try and play past the stuttering parts and hope it clears up.

When the wandering fire strikes the heart of stone, will you follow? Will you take ... the longest road?
Guy Gavriel Kay

discord: tayo134

2018-11-17 22:30:37

Wow, I can't even get passed the combat scene where you and the shepherd meet the people by the fire. I end up dying for some reason. I try to block them, but somehow I still die.

2018-11-17 22:49:03 (edited by tangela 2018-11-17 22:49:53)

Okay so... in sighted games the idea of the companion(s) is also pretty standard, and personally, I don't mind the descriptions. Its not that common to ask for descriptions irl, true, but I appreciate them in a game. they help with visualizing.

Re: female combatants: I like that some of the stay behind etc stuff or the surprise at seeing a fighter works better if you're playing as female, as in a lot of ways, she really has the deck stacked against her on a few fronts perceptually speaking. Makes it seem less about the blind thing. Different areas having different perceptions of female combatants also is neat.

I definitely found a lot of the comments have different implications if you're read as male/female, too. The thieves on the road, for one example. I personally like this aspect which, again, brings more intersectionality to the table.

I love how cinematic the audio is, and the voice actors really are great. Honestly this felt more like a standard rpg than most of the things I've played before, perhaps excluding a hero's call. I also liked the quest system, though I know others didn't necessarily.

I'd love to see an alignment system or something, so maybe the quests you choose have some baring on your characters. Different interactions with characters depending on your quests/perceptions, etc.

Also, bosses, a different combat system, magic, etc. are things that are actively being worked on, so I have high hopes for that.

From the post test google form, Keep in mind that the final game will have a much deeper combat system that utilizes skills, magic, different weapons, and different combat scenarios as well as enemies and bosses. All of these systems are currently in development.

2018-11-17 22:59:48

Great feedback, and I agree with many of the post. I too was hoping for more in the combat side of things. Specially when the controller is involved. Someone mention about the game being very linear, I hope that’s not the case. With that being said I like what they’re  doing. And I hope they take all the feedback, and continue to improve on it. Oh, almost forgot. I also had sound stuttering issues at times.

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