2018-11-07 19:47:13

First let me preface this by apologizing. I hate being just another fire starter, but I felt this didn't belong in the middle of the rules topic. Feel free to lock,delete, ban what have you, but please first read my thoughts and allow others to read them as well.

So I'm going to write a short novel here. As much as possible I am not going to directly name names, but there are a few times where I'm going to have to. I'm not doing this out of spite, but I'm doing it to make some points. I will keep this as civil as humanly possible. This is aimed at management, and I apologize but I feel a few things need to be said. I am only speaking for myself, but I feel what I have to say is probably shared by others.

When someone on your team goes. Hey. I've written up a draft of these rules. A few things need to happen.
1. You actually read them.
2. You discuss them.
3. You submit amendments, edits, what have you.
4. You take a look at the finished product, and discuss it further.
5. You post them for the community to discuss.

This is purely an outsider looking in, but from what I'm gather, it went something like this.
Jayde: Hey I wrote up these nice rules. What do you all think. Any questions?
Mod: Hey these are great.
other mod: Yeah I like them too. You should post them.
Other Other mod: Yeah they're perfect.
Other Other Other Other Other mod: Can I have a puppy?

You also can not have one moderator writing rules and wielding all the power. This is not a dig at Jayde, as I know Jayde is really trying. But you all also have to try.
The community's trust and faith in you as at an all-time low, and what we're seeing in the rules topic is a prime example.

There is no reason why when a set of rules is posted for discussion that anyone, in upper management especially an Admin should ever say things like.

"I really do think clarification of rule 6 needs to be done. Maybe make it sound less strict. "

"In fact @Jayde I do have a question for you, well, could you sort of explain this rule a bit more because I will be honest I am confused by it."

This further erodes the trust that the community has in the management. Which as I've stated is shaky at best.

So it comes down to this. If you are in a position of authority, you can not stand by while someone makes all the decisions. You also need to actively discuss and give feedback in the initial decision making process. if you are going to sit back and yes sir three bags full everything, and then later on be surprised that you don't understand something, then you need to take a good look at how you're conducting yourself.

If I were doing this which sometimes I'm glad I'm not, here's how I would have rolled it.

I would have submitted a set of rules to the mods. Immediately they would point out how atrocious both my spelling and grammar are, and we'd start brainstorming how to fix them.
We would then hash everything out over a week or two, not an hour or two.
Then when we felt we had something solid that everyone was in agreement to and understood we would present it to the community. Everyone would have contributed to it, and would be able to clearly and succinctly be able to answer questions that were posed by the community.

Yall dropped the ball hard. Jayde should have waited back a bit to give everyone time to read them, but if you all agreed that they were fine and he should post them, then you're guilty as well. You esentially hung him out to dry.

I do think though that you guys can salvage this. It sounds like there's internal dialogue going on which is truly fantastic. That needs to continue if you are going to rebuild. But it needs to be all hands on deck. Jayde can not and should not be doing things alone. If your life is getting in the way or you don't have as much time to commit then that's okay too, but it's important that you discuss bringing on board people who can help you. And if that is something you end up doing. You absolutely, one, hundred, and, fifty, percent, need to involve the community in that process. It can be as simple as. "Hello everyone. We would like to bring Sloppy Joe on board as a moderator. He has shown leadership qualities and has suggested many great ideas. How do you all feel?"
Then you give the community a few days to discuss whether or not Sloppy Joe is someone they want as a mod. If people are pleased with Sloppy Joe, then you bring him on board. If not, then you find someone else. The worst thing that you can do now is to just hand out mod status. The community even informally should have had a say in whether or not Jayde or any mod for that matter joins the team. It is after all a community.

I'm going to leave you with this thought. You have the power to do really good things that could make this community stronger than it has ever been, or really bad things that could do irreparable damage to the forum. As uncle Ben said in Spiderman about 5 million times. "With great power comes great responsibility".
I hope you do the right thing. I really hope you do.

2018-11-07 19:55:25

Please believe me when I say that I am trying. maybe still too hard. I only went ahead with publishing the rules because I got a go-ahead to do so. I thought this meant people were okay with things and that no real further explanation was needed. I am totally not trying to throw anyone under the bus here, as I recognize that most of us aren't trained professionals. Nevertheless, we're trying to establish trust, and that trust is not well supported by evidence lately.

Your idea of the right protocol for the rules was about what I expected. I was surprised to get virtually no feedback, but when I was told I could go ahead, I just sorta ran with it. Figured there was nothing hugely wrong and that if the community didn't like something, you'd tell us. And you did, and that's great. There have been some really good points and suggestions made, in fact.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

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2018-11-07 19:57:02

Oh. I'd like to make an addendum if I may.

Multiple times I and others have asked for clarification on who the admins andmods actually are. We've been told that this will be available in the FAQ. I find this disingenuous bordering on shady.

Second someone nudged me saying I should change my name to Sloppy Joe. I do not think I'd make a great mod. I have a feeling all the mods are going to want my head on a stick.

Not Sloppy Joe

2018-11-07 20:19:11

If you got thrown under the bus it's a crappy thing to do, and people should be ashamed. It only hurts the community, and serves no purpose.
I honestly had a feeling that's how it went down. Have been a moderator on enough places to see it happen. You take the credit if it works, and you pass the buck if it flops.

2018-11-07 20:25:49

I absolutely do not suggest that anyone did that to me deliberately, but a few things conspired to make this a lot uglier than it had to be.
1. I came in with a very, very strong desire to fix things and help out
2. I got very little resistance or feedback
3. I ran with and sometimes outright supported ideas; some are good, one blew up spectacularly
4. I move quickly and have taken a very active role in how things are going
5. Due to scheduling and availability, and the fact that many long-standing members of the staff team have left, this has essentially put me out front for a lot of stuff; I don't mind being here, but it does mean there is a little undue pressure on me
6. I'm very transparent and believe in keeping my word once it's given
7. Haste has been a problem for most of us, self included, and may have resulted in decisions we all have come to regret in one way or another

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

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2018-11-07 20:35:14

So yeah, I can totally agree with this. I think people just need to calm the fuck down in general. Take a step back, read a book, smoke a bowl if you're into that sort of thing, I mean it's becoming legal in most places now so. At the end of the day, it's only the internet. It's not real life. I think most people tend to forget that. But I agree that the toxicity from all sides is getting ridiculously out of hand.

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2018-11-07 20:36:00

we need a time machine so we can jump back to 3 or maybe 4 weeks back tongue
people are gonna yell me, but seriously the community has kinda fucked up when the dark left.
you guys have to find a better guy before removing him or something.

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2018-11-07 20:44:07

I personally welcome our new Sandwich overlord.
vote Sloppy Joe 2018

All the seats are taken in the house that makes the rules.
All the seats are taken in the parliament of fools.

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2018-11-07 21:20:42

ahahah

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2018-11-08 00:12:19

I agree that these forums have lost stability when dark stepped down from his position. That's why I wish that he reconsiders his decision, or the staff should find new worthy admins who are capable of regaining the forums' stability and maintaining them as good as they were before or maybe better.
Btw, seriously if Liam does agree, I think he'll be a good staff member to pick imo. It's not a courtesy, I'm really saying the truth, at least in my view.

Regards
Add me on skype
Follow me on twitter
Our blind community is unfairly treated, when it comes to games.

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2018-11-08 00:22:27

Nah, the forums have been on a steady decline for months if not outright years. It's only sped up as time goes by. It would've continued even if dark had stayed on.

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2018-11-08 02:08:03

Agreed with Sterlock. This cannot be laid at my feet, or Dark's feet, or anyone else's feet in the last little while. Quite frankly the forum has been growing more tense in, I'd say, the last two to three years. It's a trend I've noticed, and part of why I'm arguing so strongly in favour of both expiring warnings and a community failure clause over on the rules topic. When this forum started it was a whole lot tamer, generally speaking. Mods have a tougher time here than they used to back in the day. And I'm well aware I'm dating myself now. lol

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

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2018-11-08 02:44:12

10: Thank you very much. I'm extremely hesitant to step in to a position like this, but I also would give it my best if ever called upon.
11: I think it's illegal to date yourself. big_smile

2018-11-08 03:05:09

Reminds me of a silly little skipping rhyme I heard when I was young.

Asked myself out on a date
Picked myself up at half past eight
Wrapped my arms around my waist
Got so fresh I slapped my face

But no, don't want to date myself in that sense. Heh.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

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2018-11-08 06:02:05

@Muhammad Hajjar I agree. Liam would definitely get my vote.

If anyone wants to add me on Skype, it's garrett.brown2014.

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2018-11-08 16:51:10

They should pick him. The Forums now are in a situation where they need more mods and admins.

Regards
Add me on skype
Follow me on twitter
Our blind community is unfairly treated, when it comes to games.

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2018-11-08 19:29:56

at 1, I fully, strongly, wholheartedly, agree.

If you want to get in touch with me you can follow me on Twitter
have a nice day.
Paul

2018-11-08 19:52:06

personally, I think what has happened in the last few days, shows how much of the moderation duties Dark performed. I think the other moderators were used to Dark just handling issues as they came up.

i hope this mess gets cleaned up soon, so we can go back to talking about games.

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2018-11-09 13:15:22 (edited by defender 2018-11-09 13:17:28)

I agree the forums were getting worse, but it was a slow burn that was about half and half a huge uptick in younger, less mature devs using BGT and constantly fighting among them selves and mods not keeping up with new threads, which can also potentially be attributed back to the community in a pretty significant way if people weren't reporting enough like I suspect.
But if Dark had responded sooner that he was going to step down but he needed to put in new staff first, then this may have gone better, especially if he involved the community in the selection process.

This... -- Is CNN'.
Well Ted, it sure looks like there's been uh, quite a bit of violence around here
"aaoh, that violence was terrible'!"
Yeah it was, pretty bad.

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2018-11-12 14:32:19

Hello,
Absolutely agreed with you @liam. I don't want to say anything as of now because I think I have kept my point and as jade said in some other topic, he's not going to go anywhere now from this forum.

Best regards
Pranam
Go to my website from the below link! And don't forget to give me a thumbs up!

2018-11-12 18:10:03

@19, you could also argue though that more reports would only slow the mods down because that's more reports they have to wade through.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.

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2018-11-13 13:38:14 (edited by defender 2018-11-14 16:06:18)

Yeah, but I don't think that was ever our problem really, maybe in the UP topics... But they took their sweet time their too.
If their are 3 or 4 scattered reports from other threads, and then 10 from one thread, it would make sense to check the second one first.
IMO they just didn't want to deal with it and didn't want to do anything without Dark's permission.

This... -- Is CNN'.
Well Ted, it sure looks like there's been uh, quite a bit of violence around here
"aaoh, that violence was terrible'!"
Yeah it was, pretty bad.

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2018-11-13 16:51:53

why are these topics still god damn active? I think it's done by now? just let the fires burn out, cut off some of the air supplies, aka, you guys, and maybe even get some water over here!

yo! so I'm working on programing, it's really hard. But I'll tell you where you can contact me if your stupid enough to do so.
Contact information:email: [email protected]
Skype: Brennan Draves
I'm usually found on online games, chatting, and being warned bye admins for talking to much, f**k you admin!

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